Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
Yes, it does sound like Copeland. More wonderful cowboy film music.
So, even Copeland was a closet fakemenco?
100 million sales of a record with flamenco suggested? Aoleus, you make a great point. Already everyone is playing everone else's music and making out like bandits.
By your standard de Falla's Homenaje is fakemenco. That's why I didn't think the thread was serious. Anything artistic can be deconstructed to its constituent parts and identified piecemeal for their origin. And then denigrated. Unless created by PDL.
It sounds more like Aaron Copeland or Elmore Bernstein to me. Far more a part of the nationalist school of post romantic classical composition than fakemenco IMHO.
D.
Fakemenco is when someone plays pop music and pretends it is flamenco or 'jazz influenced flamenco'.
But it also utilizes flamenco elements ergo fakemenco.
Maybe for you but not for me. (anyway the ritual fire dance is more arabic than flamenco)
I am surprised that you would capitulate so easily to this label being applied to a major composer.
There may be people here who would like to encourage a view of Esteban and Rodrigo as equals and inferior to all 'real flamenco's'. I am not one of them.
Liebert's Nuevo flamenco is the most popular flamenco album ever produced with sales of 100 million copies.
McDonalds....billions and billions served.
quote:
Tonino is one of the greatest composers of the flamenco genre IMO. If I were to choose which flamenco idol I wanted to be I would choose him. Even over PdL, because I think PdL
Tonino not only rips off Paco and waters it down to easy listening, but he has done the same with falsetas of Vicente, Gerardo, Manolo Sanlucar, etc. He does so as an aficionado, a very knowledgeable one, but taste wise it's questionable. The problem is the duped fans. I have talked a lot about the GK guys....the singers THINK they are camaroneros very strongly, and the guitarists copy Camaron's guitarists in kind. You are not alone in your opinion however....lots of people prefer mcdonalds over real food, especially kids that like clowns and purple dinosaurs and don't know any better.
Rodrigo...maybe more sophisticated than Rodrigo and Gabriela....but "fakemenco" just the same. Falla yes...lorca yes....funny they end up influencing flamencos later on. At least those guys were aficionados. Lets toss in Albeniz and Granados while we are at it...wanna be flamenco piano players composing there own pieces based on what they THINK are flamenco forms. And further back as far as guitar goes we got Arcas and Tarrega composing "soleares" etc... how about the fakemenco anthem "malagueñas de Lecuona"?
I don't consider all fakemenco in bad taste...but if we must use the label we can apply it to A LOT of spanishy/flamencoy music that is simple NOT flamenco.
You might like Charo... she was a student of Segovia and was named "best flamenco guitarist" in Guitar Player Magazine's readers poll twice. Obviously i fell madly in love with her when she appeared in love boat :-).
Well obviously I'm not arguing that Tonino is better just that I'd rather have his career.
The two most fundamental albums in flamenco for me are the 1988 debut GK album and Almoraima. I'm not saying that I think they are the two most fundamental albums, just for me personally they are, because their both so influential an iconic.
You might like Charo... she was a student of Segovia and was named "best flamenco guitarist" in Guitar Player Magazine's readers poll twice. Obviously i fell madly in love with her when she appeared in love boat :-).
It's really eerie how much she sounds like Liebert. It's as if he took lessons from her in composition.
Ricardo - great to hear a "real" Flamenco player acknowledge Mario Regis. Mario is fantastic, as well as his Brother Chouchou and Father Bik. They perform as a family under the name Gipsy Del Mundo. Ricao is another great artist from The Camargue - singer, songwriter and player. I personally wouldnt consider them "Fakemenco" as they have their own style of music from the South of France. Ole!!
This thread needs some additional action, still too boring for a "fakemenco" thread.
So..... I like the same fakemenco which paco himself likes, which is this one
best fakemenco ever
Oh man Di meola was so crossed and started in the wrong beat...poor paco had to adjust compas for him that HE started...on his own song. How irritating. Anyway I consider this rumba...it's entre dos aguas/rio ancho again but revamped with a di meola fasleta intro. So is rumba flamenco? sure. So it's flamenco. But it's a fusion with jazz players interpreting so not flamenco puro...it's fusion. But for sure this was what gave birth to the bastard sons that constitute the core of "fakemenco" we know and love today.
I like these guys, and the other French gypsies for the most part. Love the GK's. It does something for me that flamenco doesn't. It acknowledges pop music but is interpreted by guys with flamenco technique. That's what usually makes the difference for me. When I hear the player has actual flamenco chops and a flamenco sound, then I usually like something about it. I just love the sound of flamenco guitar when it's played well by people who have the technique. Mostly, that's done by flamenco artists. Somehow, most of the people doing this flamenco lite style, and I'm as guilty as plenty, just ain't really delivering for me.
Guys who do it with a pick, or who have crap picado, or have weak picado sound(even if it's fast) because they aren't really doing it right, just don't do anything for me. Ottmar, rodriego & his chick, Strunzy Farrar, Govi, Benise(perhaps the biggest whore in the field), Jesse cookie, all those guys, can't stand it.
The one's I dislike the most are the one's who trade on the word flamenco the most, but have the least training in actual flamenco. Or market themselves with the trappings of flamenco.
Like trotting out dancers who they don't know how to properly play for. I know Strunz has flamenco experience, but the records I've heard just don't deliver the flamenco sound, and the solos were not really very interesting IMO. A zillion guys can play fast with a pick. That's just not enough. You have to say something.
But give me a ripping real picado, good melodic sense and good improvising, and I'm a lot more apt to dig it. Chord progressions and voicings make a difference, and flamenco chops in the accompaniment too. The sound of real picado vs. a pick. I have to acknowledge though, that Toddk delivered the goods pick or not. He might be the only one.
I love John Mc, and his history is so diverse, he can get away with some spanishy stuff all day. Al D. has done cool stuff too, but his big number with Paco, if you take away Paco and put another pick guy in there, then I'm not sure. I don't think I'd like it. I like him on electric. His acoustic sound sucks IMO.
Last time I saw the GK's they were all using pickups, and their guitar sound was bad. Listen to the first record that broke them in the States, and there is no pickup sound on that record. It's all flamenco sounding guitars. Some of the live stuff, pickup sound-terrible.
I tend not to like the word fake. Fakemencos aren't fake. They suck for real.
quote:
ORIGINAL: heavymellow
Ricardo - great to hear a "real" Flamenco player acknowledge Mario Regis. Mario is fantastic, as well as his Brother Chouchou and Father Bik. They perform as a family under the name Gipsy Del Mundo. Ricao is another great artist from The Camargue - singer, songwriter and player. I personally wouldnt consider them "Fakemenco" as they have their own style of music from the South of France. Ole!!
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread