RE: Kremona Rosa(s)

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RE: Kremona Rosa(s)

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Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Since a few people have shown interest on this brand, here's some lousy pictures. I've been told that it looks gorgeous in person, the camera doesn't really do justice to the back & sides.

Kremona 'Flamenca'

Spruce Top
Silver Oak (G. Robusta) Back & Sides
Cedar neck with Ebony fretboard
12 hole bridge
Bone/Bone

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 14 2013 18:06:37

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Another pic:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 14 2013 18:08:04

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Looks nice, gratulations!

Will your new baby fit your demands? Please give us some info on sound and action at bridge. How would you classify its sound in comparison to a cypress blanca? If the golpeador consists of two parts where a space unter the strings is left free, I surely would change it to big one-piece golpeador to protect the free space. On the Rosa Blanca exhibited at Frankfurt Musikmesse there were already damages in this space by touching with fingernails.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 14 2013 20:26:13

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to bernd)

I can't compare it to a cypress blanca because I think I've never played one and if I did, it was on a time when to me all guitars were classical and I didn't know much about woods. In fact I only cared for fretboard wood.

Regarding wood I just wanted it to be light in weight and color. From what I've been told it is very light and visually it's very tri-dimensional depending on the angle your looking at.

The golpeador is two pieces and Iam sure it won't get scratched in the middle. There are many guitars with two piece golpeador and there seems to be a theory that it lets that central part of the top vibrate better. Most of the time I only plant the thumb on the E or A string, its not enough to leave a hole in there.

Funny thing is that they had never been asked to build a guitar by a regular customer and there was a time constraint to get it complete. They solved the problem by giving the task to one person and the guitar was built in 3 weeks.

Since it is based on their Rosa models without being one of those, it was simply labeled 'Flamenca'.

More than 3 weeks left to have it in my hands

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 14 2013 21:21:57

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

The golpeador is two pieces and Iam sure it won't get scratched in the middle. There are many guitars with two piece golpeador and there seems to be a theory that it lets that central part of the top vibrate better.

The golpeador on the Kremona is thicker than most other available golpeador. A big Felipe Conde golpeador is much thinner. And the aspect of vibration related to the golpeador is for blowing in the wind. The vibration reduction is measurable, but just at the 96th digit behind the point

Regarding the woods: all-solid?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 14 2013 23:22:35

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to bernd)

Iam not really concerned with vibration issues, to me its just another theory and I would only replace the golpeador if it had bubbles or a bad cut. I've installed a full golpeador on my guitar and Iam leaving this new one as is.

Yes, all solid. I think they only make 2 laminated models, one classical and one flamenco. They have a substantial amount of rosewood fretboards, I really don't understand that choice considering that most of the people who look for all solid are expecting ebony fretboards.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2013 0:28:44

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

To give you a better idea of what this 'Flamenca' model is based on:

The neck, fretboard and bridge are Rosa Blanca.

The back & sides, rosette and tuners are Rosa Diva. EDIT: tuners are Rosa Blanca's.

Although it is tied like a 6 hole, the bridge was built with 12 holes.

The strings are Royal Classics FL60 and it comes with an extra saddle.

Regarding price it doesn't have that elaborate Rosa Blanca rosette (nah!), isn't cypress and doesn't have individual tuners (meh..) so it costed less than Rosa Blanca but definitely more than the Diva.

That's all I can say before it arrives

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2013 0:39:06

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Well... seems like there was a "minor screw up" lol

The guitar came with the more expensive individual tuners, I guess my eyes will have to adapt to that

Now that I think of it, maybe I screwed up. I had chose some black plated tuners because those were the only ones that had white rollers and buttons. Then I changed that option because although I wanted the white parts I thought that it was too much black (on the plate) so I said that I wanted the standard ones. Maybe I didnt specify that I was talking about Rosa Diva's tuners... Well, these can't be bad

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2013 13:09:11

El Burro Flamencuro

Posts: 118
Joined: Nov. 28 2012

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Hrmmm now i am confused....Here in the US Kremona's guitar line is called Orpheous Valley....and i have the Fiesta Classical model. Wish i had known about those other guitars when i bought my classical lol. My opinion of my Fiesta is...great quality of materials, but the fit n finish could be better, sound quality is very good... my guitar is much louder than a lot of the other students in my classes...but part of that isn't the guitar, the only thing i kinda don't like is the neck feels a bit thick....i wouldn't have noticed this though if i didn't go try a ramirez in the store the other day.

I would say their guitars are a great value for the price, i looked for a long time and i couldn't find any other all solid Indian rosewood back and sides for the price i paid(~$700-750). If i was buying a guitar near that price range again...i'd probably get a Student model Francisco Navarro Garcia(~$995). I don't really know if they are better or not but i've heard good things. But also it would be palo escrito...mexican rosewood? vs indian rosewood hrmmm...

Anyways i just realized none of this info matters, since you just got that one...but being that i just wrote all this stuff i'll post it anyways.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2013 6:56:57

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to El Burro Flamencuro)

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Burro Flamencuro

and i have the Fiesta Classical model. Wish i had known about those other guitars when i bought my classical lol.

Comparing a classical with a flamenco guitar is the same as comparing apples with pears.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2013 8:42:33

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to El Burro Flamencuro)

They are the same guitars. Its strange that noone told you about the flamenco line..or maybe you bought yours before they started to build flamenco guitars.

Either way, the fiesta is very different from mine and it is also less expensive.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2013 8:57:41

bernd

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RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

@ Rui
have you already received your guitar? Any news?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2013 17:37:27

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to bernd)

Nope, not yet. Just pictures.

I've been watching some youtube videos of Roberto Corrias playing kremona classical guitars and I think even those would make good flamencas:

Here's the bridge:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2013 17:56:06

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Its here since yesterday night

Iam really liking it, its very well made (only minor finish blemishes), looks AWESOME (silver oak is like 3D wood), smells great and feels great (very light, the body is also very thin which is nice and confortable).

It has Royal Classics FL60 and Iam only playing it now. I had to "edit" the nut (the spacing was 41,5mm.... dunno what the idea was but it didn't feel right on my left hand).

It's very easy to play and by now it shows the kind of character that I enjoy... trebly trebles, throaty mids and trebly basses. Let's wait for the strings to get older...also the black trebles aren't what I would consider neutral strings.

It has a wild bracing.. A very long strut at the middle with two on each side almost parallel to this middle one. Then theres another one with more angle but much shorter at the bass side.... and then there's a wildly angled one at the treble. They all have different heights, even different thicknesses. Theres nothing around the soundhole, just one small strut patch perpendicular to the neck on each side and an extra one on the treble side. I'll take a pic when I can.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 16:24:13

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

I'll take a pic when I can.

Great you like it, gratulations! Have fun with you new baby and give us some sounds, please

Regarding the strings imho flamenco strings cut the treble brillianz. The only neutral strings I know are from D´Addario. I use Savarez Chorum for trebles and Hannabch 815 for basses, both high tension.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 17:12:14

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to bernd)

Thats why I don't consider black trebles to be neutral. Also they have that harder feeling on the right hand fingers which isn't good after all the manual work and adjustments I've been doing. So much filing/sanding/washing hands.. my fingertips want some rest now.

The fretboard had ebony dust, lots of paper towels and elbow grease to remove it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 17:30:58

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

So pleased you have your new guitar and you are enjoying it!

Very best Rui

pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 20:33:11

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to pink)

Thanks man, aprecciate it. Everything seems to be perfect now, except the action... 12th fret less than 2mm and 1mm on the first string

I think this is due to the excessive humidity, when the R.H. gets down to 50-60% I hope to have it around 2,5mm.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 21:18:25

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

That's low.....1 & 2 mm
I like my action around 2.5 on the treble and closer to 3 on the bass side but as we know all guitars and players are different. Very easy to lose tone and volume if wrong. What you using for shims?
When is the weather/humidity looking like improving there for you?
So glad that got to you safe and sound!

Enjoy

Best

pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 21:52:26

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to pink)

The guitar left the factory a month ago and I she doesn't know yet what it is like to have humidity below 70%.

Not using any shims.
Funny thing is that it's very playable and the notes don't choke (unless I bang the strings really hard... they're low tension too, except for the D string that is almost as thick as the A string lol). Even in this situation it still is louder and much more vibrant than my Alhambra. As I said, the nut spacing wasn't confortable but I've managed to adjust it and now it's great. It also feels that the neck profile isnt symmetrical (maybe due to the hand sanding)... it's a REALLY confortable neck!

No wonder Anders kept this B&S wood for special 1A models. It's outstanding, looks very alive and matches the cedar neck in color.

Kremona's are Orpheus Valley in USA, take a look.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 22:13:29

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Felizidades Rui!
Mas fotos y un video por favor!

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 22:27:20

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

The guitar left the factory a month ago and I she doesn't know yet what it is like to have humidity below 70%.

Not using any shims.
Funny thing is that it's very playable and the notes don't choke (unless I bang the strings really hard... they're low tension too, except for the D string that is almost as thick as the A string lol). Even in this situation it still is louder and much more vibrant than my Alhambra. As I said, the nut spacing wasn't confortable but I've managed to adjust it and now it's great. It also feels that the neck profile isnt symmetrical (maybe due to the hand sanding)... it's a REALLY confortable neck!

No wonder Anders kept this B&S wood for special 1A models. It's outstanding, looks very alive and matches the cedar neck in color.

Kremona's are Orpheus Valley in USA, take a look.

You are bonding extremely quickly....I like that you are not afraid to adjust and make it yours completely.
Am looking forward to hearing you pay!

Best

pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 22:30:43

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to pink)

I haven't played much yet, maybe tomorrow morning.

The trick to do adjustments properly is practicing on cheap guitars.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 22:45:46

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

Thanks man, aprecciate it. Everything seems to be perfect now, except the action... 12th fret less than 2mm and 1mm on the first string

I think this is due to the excessive humidity, when the R.H. gets down to 50-60% I hope to have it around 2,5mm.

High Humidity doesn´t make the action lower. It makes the wood thicker and raises the action. I think you have filed too much

What is the action at bridge, will it pass the cigarette test? Does your guitar has a flat or domed top?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 2:16:49

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to bernd)

I haven't filed the saddle. Humidity has always lowered the action on my guitars. Everything is very flat right now (top/neck). The cigarette only catches at the treble side. Its 8,5mm under the 6th string.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 11:57:15

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Very strange to me. My experience is just the opposite. Air dryness during the heating period makes the wood losing humidity what makes the wood thinner. This produces string buzzing. Maybe it depends on how the guitar is conditioned in its climatic circumstances.

8,5 mm is ok but already very close to the limit. I don´t accept bridge actions above 9 mm but prefer 7 to 8 mm.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 23:39:51

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to bernd)

You consider 80% R.H. dry?

The are around the soundhole was swollen, usually theres a dip there that ends at the bridge. The neck has zero relief right now and the are past the 12th fret is a bit higher.

Iam using a dehumidifier now, dropped the humidity to 60%, let's so how it goes.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2014 1:22:56

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

So have a domed top. The "swollen" area is often used. My former Fernando Sánchez models had this domed top, too. I still play one. The flatter the bridge action the better is the playability for i-golpes. With a domed top the i-golpes needs to be played near to the bridge. If your nailplate is too short, then it will hurt playin it nearer to the rosette. This is the advantage of a flat top and a continous equal action.
Below 6 mm it becomes riskful to touch the top with fingernails on any string. At a luthiers in Málaga I played a repaired guitar with 5 mm. I always touched the top with the nails - very annoying!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2014 1:55:04

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Update on this...

I've had the dehumidifier on all the time and decided to grab the crappiest old basses that I had lying around that were high tension. I found Pyrammid HT ones, they're extremely thick and made my other guitar sound like a curtain.

For trebles I picked some new Thomann value strings (the whole set costs 2€), not High tension but definetely more than the black RC's that came with the guitar.

The action is now getting to where it should be and Iam very happy with what Iam hearing and feeling in my hands. The height at the saddle is now 9mm but it feels exactly like my other guitar which is 6,5mm down there... the reason for this is that this new guitar has a flat angle so the action is still 9mm near the rosette where I anchor my thumb. The other guitar is 9mm where I anchor my thumb and even higher at the rosette/hole/so on.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2014 22:23:18

El Burro Flamencuro

Posts: 118
Joined: Nov. 28 2012

RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

They are the same guitars. Its strange that noone told you about the flamenco line..or maybe you bought yours before they started to build flamenco guitars.

Well basically what happened is i bought my classical guitar before i found a video of paco de lucia playing Impetu; after witnessing the greatness that unfolded before my eyes, i am a flamenco(or at least prefer it and am actively pursuing it). Since that day, everything i have discovered about flamenco, reinforces my love for it even more. although since then i have developed a taste for the traditional palos. and falsetas. At the time of purchase i didn't even know flamenco existed. I wanted a degree in music and i knew my instrument of choice would be guitar...the only degree offered here is in classical guitar. maybe i should drop out of school and go learn in spain.
well don't mean to hi jack your thread, i hope you like your guitar!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2014 5:20:26