Sugar in Bread.

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Sugar in Bread.

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guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

Sugar in Bread.

Here is a conspiracy that really disturbs me.

A little sugar in bread is fine. A lot is disgusting and takes effort to learn to tolerate.

Now I don't want to get bogged down in the murky waters of corporate agendas. So for the purposes of this thread it would be great if we could focus on the individual responsibility of consumers.

Every week people take their children to outlets which put a lot of sugar in bread.

Surely this is a conspiracy ? A conspiracy with indeed millions of willing participants.

I am a man of negligible means. And I am by no means altruistic about democracy. Nevertheless I am greatly heartened that I have the power to avoid taking part in this conspiracy.

Do any others spring to mind guys ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2013 23:03:25

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I'm back to baking my own bread after a hiatus of many years. It isn't necessary to add sugar to the dough to make bread, but you'll still need it to proof the yeast.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2013 5:37:06

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Sugar is the cheapest of ingredients* (and weight makers), and it serves greatly for producing addiction.
In regard of bread it is also used to produce a dark crust. (Then named "sugar color".)
Sugar color has been found to be carcinogenic.

Where I live sugar consumption is even higher than in central Europe. For some unrelated reason a routine has been established to sweeten ones tea by taking cube sugar in one´s mouth before sipping. This leads not only to about 4 times as much of sugar for a cup of tea but numbs the tongues receptors for sweetness, which again leads to exttreme consumption.

I have been trying to find a pastry cook who could be prepared to make sweets with less than half the sugar, but they will only respond when you order large quantities.

Ruphus

*
That´s how it used to be until recently. I think to recall that menawhile there exist even cheaper filler. - Could be cellulosis, but don´t quote me on that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2013 11:33:17

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

I think to recall that menawhile there exist even cheaper filler. - Could be cellulosis, but don´t quote me on that.

Yes, sawdust.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2013 13:12:16

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

I make all our families bread, mostly I use a starter. From time to time I make yeast
bread, I have a big mixer with a dough hook. I never proof yeast, I just throw it in
and mix. Commercial yeast is so reliable these days, the need to proof it is almost
a thing of the past.

Not that it matter in the least, just thought I would mention it.

Naturally leavened (i.e. from a starter) has a much better taste.

Jeff

quote:

I'm back to baking my own bread after a hiatus of many years. It isn't necessary to add sugar to the dough to make bread, but you'll still need it to proof the yeast.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2013 13:34:03

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to n85ae)

quote:

ORIGINAL: n85ae

I make all our families bread, mostly I use a starter.

Yummy.

I am personally more comfortable with wood pulp in ice cream than I am with large quantities of sugar in bread.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2013 13:51:53

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to n85ae)

quote:

Naturally leavened (i.e. from a starter) has a much better taste.

Sponge is the best way to go esp. for taste. I began proofing yeast because I had a few packets that were out of date. IMO it is easier to tell which commercial yeasts are better by noting the height of the foam they produce so I'll keep proofing dry yeast.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2013 15:08:10

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

Now I don't want to get bogged down in the murky waters of corporate agendas. So for the purposes of this thread it would be great if we could focus on the individual responsibility of consumers.

Every week people take their children to outlets which put a lot of sugar in bread.

Do any others spring to mind guys ?

Well I for one David tend to avoid 'comedy' shows in which the characters are 1)Politically dissociated and 2)Obsessed with consumerism.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2013 15:21:26

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

If you are using yeast I would agree, if using a starter you have already crossed
this bridge. I make pizza dough from a sponge, or at least an overnite rise
in the frig. I have a wood fired pizza oven, fondly called the "pizza incinerator"
and make pizza's every couple weeks baking at a balmy 750-900 degrees F.
Bake time a for a pizza is about 3-6 minutes.

Oh, and David. Watch "King Corn", you will no longer worry about sugar ...

Jeff

quote:

Sponge is the best way to go esp. for taste. I began proofing yeast because I had a few packets that were out of date. IMO it is easier to tell which commercial yeasts are better by noting the height of the foam they produce so I'll keep proofing dry yeast.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2013 15:33:45

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to n85ae)

quote:

I have a wood fired pizza oven, fondly called the "pizza incinerator" and make pizza's every couple weeks baking at a balmy 750-900 degrees F.

I spent a few years developing a dough that would make great pizza in an oven that only goes up to 550F. Though I’m happy with the outcome I've always wondered how well it would work in an 800F oven.

I plan on buying a pound of Saf-yeast and I'm already using King Arthur flour--do you have any suggestions on basic ingredients for bread and pizza?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2013 16:52:44

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

For pizza I use King Arthur all purpose flour rather than bread flour, and usually
just make a very basic dough, with yeast, flour, water, and a little salt and let it rise
in the refrigerator overnite. Then let it warm up a few hours before making pizza.
I like yeast dough, as it seems to make better pizza when you have a faster rising dough. The sourdough makes great bread, but it's better for the longer rising stuff.

Lot's of good info can be found here, along with basic food porn.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/

Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2013 17:33:35

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to n85ae)

quote:

For pizza I use King Arthur all purpose flour rather than bread flour, and usually
just make a very basic dough, with yeast, flour, water, and a little salt and let it rise
in the refrigerator overnite. Then let it warm up a few hours before making pizza.
I like yeast dough, as it seems to make better pizza when you have a faster rising dough. The sourdough makes great bread, but it's better for the longer rising stuff.

Lot's of good info can be found here, along with basic food porn.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/

Jeff

Great! Thanks, Jeff.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 30 2013 18:31:23

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1809
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

That was one of the reasons that my wife and I gave up eating bread several years ago (although I must admit to succumbing occasionally when particularly tasty-looking stuff appears in restaurants).

The other is that it contains far too many carbs.

It wasn’t easy, because Marmite sarnies used to be my comfort-food. But now it’s not a problem.

I’ve just been reading Dearie, the biography of Julia Child: there’s quite a lot about how frustrated she got trying to make good French bread in the States, until she realised that it was because American ingredients were crap — particularly the flour.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2013 16:34:58

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Concerning the wonder of delicious, crisp French baguette, I recall a French restaurant owner and cook telling me that it had to do with chaff contained in the French flour ( which at that time wasn´t even allowed under German law ).
I am still curious to know: Can it be?

A little curiousity besides:
Last years ( or was it the year before that ...) anual competition about best baker in Paris was won by an emigrant ( from Marocco or Libanon, ... or maybe Algeria; don´t remember exactly). I think the winner then gets entitled to supply the Élysée Palace.
Must have caused teeth grinding in the branch.
-

Dunno whether the new carb hystery is of sense.
Isn´t it that carb had lots to do with our augment, and would it be detrimental as long as you ensure to make use of the energy it provides ( moving the body / sports).

From what I know at least for building up muscles carbs present a healthier nutrition than protein.

... Even if I had to accept that the new hhype was of sennse, I am just a succer for carbs. Specially for fried ones. When things shimmers in golden color, I can hardly resist.

The tasty part of a dish, wahtever it be, for me is mainly there to accompany a huge trowel full of well done pasta, rice, potatos - and where it can be had - rich bread.

In Germany, when you´re still lucky enough to find an actual and traditional bakery, you will discover breads and rolls that steam off an unbelievable array of flavours. So exciting that sometimes you have a hard time halting while eating.
Even if there be nothing at hand to mate it with other than butter.

Just saying ...
You may guess that where I am now they traditionally have only primitive sorts, commonly consisting of just flour, salt and water. And the baguette that can be found has little to do with the original in France.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2013 19:25:41

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Carb hysteria is what it is, carbs are the fuel that burns fat. It's just a matter of how
much, when, and what kinds of carbs. If you're moving, and putting out some energy
you really have no need to worry about carbs. If you sit on the couch watching TV,
drinking beer, and eating pizza night after night then you've got a problem.

Regards,
Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2013 19:59:09

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1809
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to n85ae)

quote:

Carb hysteria is what it is, carbs are the fuel that burns fat.

Oh, brother. Words fail me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2013 21:10:51

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1809
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

Dunno whether the new carb hystery is of sense.

It’s not hysteria. All the rubbish about the dangers of saturated fat, though, is. Read Gary Taubes’s Good Calories, Bad Calories for a good account.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2013 21:17:09

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I like that as a response when I write something, it tells me that the
respondent completely missed the point. :)

quote:

Oh, brother. Words fail me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2013 21:24:06

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

http://thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/good-calories-bad-calories-a-critical-review/

quote:

Read Gary Taubes’s Good Calories, Bad Calories for a good account.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2013 21:34:05

johnnefastis

Posts: 633
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Cool topic,

I have done sourdough and yeast and never felt the need for sugar with the thinking that flour produces lots of sugars. Why add it.

What about salt ?

We stopped using it in bread when we had a daughter. Now sometimes I use a little it but I don't really notice it other than when I eat really salty bread.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 1 2013 21:53:19

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Need to have salt to slow the yeast, and allow the gluten to develop. Also helps
the flavor. Don't need sugar, but a nice rye bread can sure use a bit of honey.
A little (shudder) white sugar will help a dough for pizza crust brown a bit better
on the stone.

Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2013 0:31:37

Ricardo

Posts: 15153
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

um, sugar is good for you. So is fat. Good for your BRAINS. Carbs are essential. Lord, just do some exercise and you all will be fine.

There ain't no conspiracy that food is good for you and your body. The problem is look outside. No kids playing. THey are inside sucking on sweets fats and carbs playing video games...nice formula for diabetes etc.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2013 19:58:53

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Did you know Mexico just surpassed the Untited States as the fattest country?
Seems like, if your nations REALLY poor, your skinny cus you get no food. You eat what nature supplies you locally.
If your nation is just kinda poor you're fat because you get crappy food. McDonalds etc..
And if your nation is wealthy you slim down cus you can afford to eat locally grown organic foods from Whole Foods.
Comes full circle I guess.....LOL

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2013 20:53:26

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I agree, only not with the McDonalds as broad resource in emergent countries.
That stuff is darn expensive!
-

Japanese and Turks are no longer short people. The later´s late genretaion has even mushroomed to tall and heavy guys.
It´s been there genetically, but couldn´t be backed up nutrition wise pre WWII times.

Mainly for dairy ( which as detrimental as it is, makes for `fertilizer´ during growth).
But seeing the piles of sugar cubes that are being calculated as daily secret and open sugar consumption with average diet, it will probably be contributing to body hight as well.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2013 21:26:43

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

You know what I find kind of amazing. My girlfriend is ethnically vietnamese but her and her brothers and sister were born here. Her parents who spent most there life in Vietnam barely break 5 feet tall. The shortest sister in the family is taller then her Dad at about 5 feet 5 inches and her oldest brother is 6 feet 2 inches. I can't help but think it's nutrition related. They seem to agree, all the aunts and uncles are short, all the cousins are tall............

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2013 21:31:43

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

There have been periods before with people tall, all due to nutrition.
Provided certain areas to remain wealthy, I wonder where average size may end up.
( In northern Europe, or at least Skandinavia with folks around 2 meters maybe?)
-

On a very different note:
What do you think; where could species become larger, on a ( of course inhabitable) small planet like the earth, or on a planet of greater size?

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2013 21:52:57

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

You know what I find kind of amazing. My girlfriend is ethnically vietnamese but her and her brothers and sister were born here. Her parents who spent most there life in Vietnam barely break 5 feet tall. The shortest sister in the family is taller then her Dad at about 5 feet 5 inches and her oldest brother is 6 feet 2 inches. I can't help but think it's nutrition related. They seem to agree, all the aunts and uncles are short, all the cousins are tall............

Epigenetic effects although separate from evolutionary developments are often expressed at a remove of one or two generations. Here is a link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

D.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2013 22:05:07

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

-

On a very different note:
What do you think; where could species become larger, on a ( of course inhabitable) small planet like the earth, or on a planet of greater size?

Ruphus

It used to be believed that early birds were flightless but when mechanical modelling was repeated to adjust for the lower density atmosphere it turned out that ascent as well as gliding were possible.

It is hard to see any advantage for greater size in a non feudal environment save for certain sports. Shorter people (within the same demographic) are generally healthier. Whether or not we will ever shake off evolutionary artefact of the desirability of size over efficiency remains to be seen.

If we can't get over that though I doubt we will ever get to the stars.

But I doubt we will ever get to the stars anyway.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2013 22:11:56

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

Epigenetic effects although separate from evolutionary developments are often expressed at a remove of one or two generations. Here is a link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

I don't know if it's a case of Epigenetics, maybe her parents we're genitically meant to be taller but were not able to reach that potential during development due to malnutrition or stress. Something like rickets.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickets

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2013 22:17:54

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Sugar in Bread. (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

You know what I find kind of amazing. My girlfriend is ethnically vietnamese but her and her brothers and sister were born here. Her parents who spent most there life in Vietnam barely break 5 feet tall. The shortest sister in the family is taller then her Dad at about 5 feet 5 inches and her oldest brother is 6 feet 2 inches. I can't help but think it's nutrition related. They seem to agree, all the aunts and uncles are short, all the cousins are tall............

Oh and on another note the expression of certain hormones which control the feeling of satiation are affected by epigenetic changes.

Greed can be inherited. The tremendous increase in type two diabetis is particularly strong in people with ethnicities which are only now being exposed to plenty. It is a perfect storm of the bodies reasonable response to a perceived famine in a previous generation with a gap in previous selection for resistance to diabetes.

Does everyone remember Eddie Murphy's Macdonalds skit ?

I don't know about you but his Mums burger sure sounded good to me.
But with the best will in the world leave the TV on and they will want what they are told to.

So why leave the TV on ?

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2013 22:17:55