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RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to estebanana)
A Washington D.C. man apparently cracked his Conde' model A-fart 1326/b .6, but he has no idea how. Authorities are searching Rock Creek Park for evidence after having received a tip from an anon caller.
He was hit over the head with a leather bound "hacky-sac" by a suspect wearing a black Cordobes hat. The suspect tried to rob the man, but failed, police think in the tussle the Conde' was injured. The model A-fart 1326/b .6 Conde' is believed to be in stable condition in the owners home. However it suffered deep lacerations to it's white wall rosette.
The suspect is armed with a hackey-sack and is very dangerous. Do not approach if you sight him and cover you ears as police think he does palmas in victims faces to deafen and stun his victims.
Call DC Police officer Col. Conde' at 202-***-**** and ask for extension A26.
RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to estebanana)
Fred, it's a running joke. I'm pretty sure if Riconde'' and Estebanana ever meet there will be lots of drinking and laughing, but not bromance. He's not my type.
RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to Ricardo)
Fred, Stephen broke Ricardo's guitar... The one he treated like a dog. I think he took it pretty well.
Stephen's mojo is even stronger than a kicked-in-the teeth Conde. Ricardo; get more orange on it before Stephen gets to crushing bugs.
Stephen, crush the bugs, select them individually for their radient oranginess. No luthier voodoo. Just mix it up and fix it good. After Ricardo gets that crack fixed.
RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to z6)
quote:
Stephen, crush the bugs, select them individually for their radient oranginess. No luthier voodoo. Just mix it up and fix it good. After Ricardo gets that crack fixed.
Cochineal is fugitive, it would turn back to clear after many years or fade....
That is brilliant actually, sell them a cochineal orange guitar and it fades to mellow brown.....
RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to estebanana)
If you hate orange don’t blame the poor Conde bros. Blame Jose Ramirez III and Pepe Habichuela. Until about 1966 flamenco guitars started out blond and went golden as they got older. Then Ramirez started making flamenco guitar tops from western red cedar he found it necessary to use a darker varnish to mask the contrast between cypress and cedar. The varnish was reddish brown. It took the Conde brothers a few years to catch up. Their version was less tasteful. If it wasn’t for Pepe it would have gone out of fashion long ago.
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RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to RobJe)
quote:
If you hate orange don’t blame the poor Conde bros. Blame Jose Ramirez III and Pepe Habichuela. Until about 1966 flamenco guitars started out blond and went golden as they got older. Then Ramirez started making flamenco guitar tops from western red cedar he found it necessary to use a darker varnish to mask the contrast between cypress and cedar. The varnish was reddish brown. It took the Conde brothers a few years to catch up. Their version was less tasteful. If it wasn’t for Pepe it would have gone out of fashion long ago.
Hating orange, I don't hate orange, I dislike bad orange finishes.
Most orange finishes are cloudy, not transparent and have low refractive index. Nor are they highly dichroic, if at all. I dislike cheap orange opaque finishes that lack depth and color change as you move them in light. The majority of Conde's have this kind of lackluster finish. It's ugly and garish, and when you see a beautiful finish you learn to tell the difference and you don't want to look at crap.
Older Conde's often have deep brownish orange, dichroic lacquer finishes, they look great. The new ones have a rubbery obscure coat of muck.
And Ramizez' idea to match the colors of his cedar tops to backs & sides was a dumb idea. Although he did do it with better finishes which display more depth more sensitive color and subtle color. I learned about this through Gene Clark several years ago because he was able to see dozens of Spanish guitars coming to California in the late fifties a early sixties. I received his information on guitar finishes from that time and he did report exactly as you say; the guitars came out of Spain with not much color if at all. The early guitars I have seen by Ramirez family, de da Chica et. al. are golden from oxidation and they look fantastic under clear deep finishes. I'm more interested in staying with that earlier tradition of not tarting up the guitar.
I've thought about making a few colored guitars and I've done some tests with colored grounds on the wood. I made a stain with pernambuco wood and made a ground with pumice and shellac colored with this tincture stain. I layered a red orange varnish over it, but I was not happy with the clarity. It needs to be stellar, it needs to glow, it needs to look miles deep, it needs to flash two complex colors as you move it back and forth. It should look elegant and not like a common fire hydrant or traffic cone orange.
I don't hate orange, I have high expectations of how deep and clear a finish should be. So far I'm not impressed with current Conde' varnish jobs, they look sub-par. I'd rather my guitars go out clear or slightly shaded, then get golden brown, than go out orange, until I make the orange that will make me happy.
RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to estebanana)
i think you critic so much this varnish because you cant do varnish like this,you dont have equipment. it cost too much for you,and doing varnish conde ,it's a job!
RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
I don't hate orange
Accepted - sorry!
My point was mainly about fashion. I lived and played through the changes initiated (partly?) by Jose III. Once leading professionals were seen playing these deeper coloured guitars (shades of red/orange/brown), everyone wanted one. I remember guitarists refinishing their own cheaper range (but sometimes very good) Condes to keep up with the latest trend. A favourite method was to sandpaper off the original finish (yes really!) and refinish with a brush using red made-up FP obtained from a luthier supply company. I remember on one gig my fellow guitarist's blotchy red guitar was still sticky to the touch!
As I understand it, dichroic finishes have the ability to reflect different colours when viewed at different angles. Does well applied FP have already the properties required? When you talk about your experiments, are these with FP or some other lacquer(s)?
RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to el carbonero)
quote:
i think you critic so much this varnish because you cant do varnish like this,you dont have equipment. it cost too much for you,and doing varnish conde ,it's a job!
I doubt you've ever seen a clear deep finish with high refractive index and dichroic flash.
It also does not cost too much for me to afford, I sink money into materials.
I also must say I really dislike your comments about my work, I think you have a very limited scope of reference regarding guitars. I also wish for you in the future to keep your comments to yourself when my work in concerned. Thanks.
RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to RobJe)
quote:
As I understand it, dichroic finishes have the ability to reflect different colours when viewed at different angles. Does well applied FP have already the properties required? When you talk about your experiments, are these with FP or some other lacquer(s)?
I've been working on putting an oil based varnish over a colored shellac ground coat. I have not found the varnish that gives the clarity I want with the durability needed. It's always the problem. I have finished a few guitars with spar varnish, if you do it carefully the varnish does not cause damping as many claim. Dichroism happens when use two colors applied in layers. You're right the color changes when you move to view it at a different angle. Weird as it may sound I'm interested in using pine resin violin- linseed oil varnishes on some guitars, but probably not flamenco guitars. I'm more interested in trying browns and alizarin reds, but that is daring on a guitar.
I'm glad you understood what I meant, the older colored guitars can be really nice, but he newer bright reds without green and brown in them to make them glow don't appeal to me. I'd rather stick to the blonde clear shellac guitar aesthetic than make oranges just to make them to say "Oh hey I can emulate a Conde'." I don't want to waste what is left of my life recreating and orange finish that looks cloudy and something a guy can buy already off the shelf. What is the point? I might live another 25- 30 years, why would I want to make orange guitars with that time I have left?
Posts: 15506
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to estebanana)
nah don't be so hard on yourself man. YOu can do it! It just takes a little love (drop the prejudicial hate man!!), and it CLEARLY makes the guitar sound better too, and so cool and shiny under different stage lights, super flamenco. OLE! Just do it.
RE: Canal Conde' - The 24 Hour Conde... (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
A favourite method was to sandpaper off the original finish (yes really!)
Richard Brune, luthier outside Chicago, has said he saw a number of Ramirez classicals 1A ruined by removing the top's sprayed finish and then.french polished.
I've got a '70 Ramirez flamenco 2A ( top not bookmatched) and the grain configuration hiding underneath the orange finish is reason enough to color the top I think. Also the peg head veneer is a different wood I think, like walnut and some deep brown streaks on it.
The example posted above looks to have a bookmatched top There seems to be quite a few 2A in circulation still so well built as mine is sound.