Flamenco guitar learning curve

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Lionheart

Posts: 10
Joined: Jul. 2 2013

Flamenco guitar learning curve

Hello,probably someone has came up with such a question already but I couldn't find a trace of it. I'll try to make myself as clear as possible.

We all know what it takes student to learn let's say classical guitar (without a teacher). He/she starts from getting a good method,then playing a couple of notes in first position apoyando, then a bit of thumb is added to the equation, then arpeggios, scales and so on. In the end of the method student knows how to play let's say grade 3 pieces, reads scores etc. How does he progress further on? Well it's easy. There're lots of graded pieces so he picks up something, goes through it, moves to the next one. Up until he's able to play Recuerdos or something like that

Now let's imagine someone who wants to learn flamenco guitar. He buys let's say Graf's or Herrero's method (or any other stuff) and goes through it. After completing them he has a couple of soleas and tangos and probably bulerias under his belt. What's next? Should he/she get some flamenco scores and try to learn some more complex pieces (the classical guitar way)? Or should he find a pile of falsetas and learn them one by one incorporating them into the pieces he already has learnt? Or maybe student should listen to guys like Tomatito etc and try to transcribe what they play (seems quite impossible at this stage)?

Sorry for the long post. Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2013 7:53:13

mysticriver

Posts: 17
Joined: Jun. 24 2013

RE: Flamenco guitar learning curve (in reply to Lionheart)

The typical way is to progress through falsetas by difficulty but I reckon it's better just to become utterly comfortable with the rhythm and improvise. Then again, I've just started learning three months ago.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2013 8:43:47

por medio

Posts: 289
Joined: Nov. 15 2009

RE: Flamenco guitar learning curve (in reply to Lionheart)

quote:

He buys let's say Graf's or Herrero's method (or any other stuff) and goes through it. After completing them he has a couple of soleas and tangos and probably bulerias under his belt

This is where most issues lie for beginners not exposed to flamenco community (as in Spain of course). They start by buying one of these books and learning "pieces" or falsetas. Flamenco doesn't work like that.

Start by listening to lots of cante. Old and semi-old stuffs are a good start (I wont' go into it here since right now I only have few minutes). Do palmas to it. LOTS of times. Do palmas to lots of Buleria, lots of tangos, some solea possibly. Watch youtube. So many good channels now. Search through this foro here for some recommended channels. Then strum out some rhythms. Again tangos or tientos is a great start. If you do really well (I mean REALLY well), you might play along to some cante through youtube or music (it's not all THAT different from playing along to, say, "House of the rising sun").

A good teacher will be able to guide you well, with instructions on techniques. Do skype with Ricardo or ToddK or any of great players here.

If you begin to learn falsetas, start with really "simple" ones - like not many notes and simplist techniques (like just thumb), and practice putting it in the right places - i.e. in compas.

Go find a dance class. Beat out the same tangos, solea or buleria compas for three hours straight.

Again, a good teacher will save you a lot of work in the future. If you are unsure if the teacher is good, just skype with one of the guys as I have mentioned.

quote:

Or maybe student should listen to guys like Tomatito etc and try to transcribe what they play (seems quite impossible at this stage)?

Whatever you do don't do that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2013 9:02:34

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Flamenco guitar learning curve (in reply to mysticriver)

I dont think there is only one method for the learning curve. Everybody has different amount of natural talent in playing and learning and everybody has different interests after having learned the basics. But in general, learning videos(for example juan martins vids) and encuentro videos(which I suppose are also learning vids) are always a good way to learn. I am beginner myself

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2013 9:03:24

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Flamenco guitar learning curve (in reply to Lionheart)

He should travel to Spain and hang out with gypsies.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2013 15:59:24

Lionheart

Posts: 10
Joined: Jul. 2 2013

RE: Flamenco guitar learning curve (in reply to bursche)

quote:

He should travel to Spain and hang out with gypsies.

C'mon guys

I'm not going to be pro. I'm speaking about making some steady progress. It doesn't matter what I'll be able to play in the end.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2013 16:56:22

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: Flamenco guitar learning curve (in reply to Lionheart)

Classical guitar is about playing melodic pieces. Flamenco is more about playing chords with cool strumming and funky rhythms.

I wouldn't recommend delving too deep into solo flamenco guitar (at first) - its like the fancy classical melodies combined with the flamenco rhythms. Steep learning curve.

Like por medio suggested, get comfortable with the grooves (compas) and strumming (rasgueados) first, and it'll be a great foundation to build on later.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2013 17:44:59

Lionheart

Posts: 10
Joined: Jul. 2 2013

RE: Flamenco guitar learning curve (in reply to chester)

quote:

Classical guitar is about playing melodic pieces. Flamenco is more about playing chords with cool strumming and funky rhythms.

I wouldn't recommend delving too deep into solo flamenco guitar (at first) - its like the fancy classical melodies combined with the flamenco rhythms. Steep learning curve.

Like por medio suggested, get comfortable with the grooves (compas) and strumming (rasgueados) first, and it'll be a great foundation to build on later.

Well in that case almost all video methods I mentioned before (Graf-Martinez, Herrero etc) do go in line with what you're saying. They teach you strumming first, then they add pulgar, then picado etc. So they all start with rhythm and compas. I was interested in what happens next. As I've said classical guitarists can pick s piece, read the score and start playing in case they've got the necessary technique under their belt. Just was wondering what flamenco guitarists do once they are comfortable with compas and the technical stuff.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2013 18:35:16

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: Flamenco guitar learning curve (in reply to Lionheart)

Oh, well that's easy - find other people who play flamenco and make music together!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2013 18:51:18

por medio

Posts: 289
Joined: Nov. 15 2009

RE: Flamenco guitar learning curve (in reply to Lionheart)

quote:

Just was wondering what flamenco guitarists do once they are comfortable with compas and the technical stuff

What Chester is saying is right. More specifically, dance classes and if you're lucky, a singer.

You could learn some "pieces" if you just can't wait but it shouldn't be the main form of your practice. Remember playing compas well IS flamenco, doing some dodgy falsetas isn't. And I'm sure that you have a lot of improving to do - as we all do - in playing compas.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 1 2013 20:59:03