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Brendan

Posts: 153
Joined: Oct. 30 2010
 

Academic Articles About Flamenco 

I've read most of the academic books in English about flamenco, so I wondered what journal articles there are. Not many. Here is the result of the search:

https://sites.google.com/site/obscureflamencology/

I don't endorse all this stuff; I don't even respect all of it. Some of it dates back to the days when Flamenco was the affordable exotic; some of the more recent stuff understands that exoticing the Other is a trope of hegemony and that flamenco is a performative dialectic of conformity and resistance in a site of praxis... or something. It's moderately interesting to see how academic representations of flamenco have changed over the last century, and yet how little studied it still is (if you throw 'Cante Jondo' at Google Scholar, much of what you get back is about Lorca, and only indirectly about flamenco).

I rather like this one:

Heller (2000)

for the way she calls the art critics on their ignorance.

Enjoy!

_____________________________

https://sites.google.com/site/obscureflamencology/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 19 2013 10:11:32
 
Brendan

Posts: 153
Joined: Oct. 30 2010
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Brendan

Thanks to a good mate at Seville University, I've just found this amazing project:

COFLA: COmputational analysis of FLAmenco music

http://mtg.upf.edu/research/projects/cofla

_____________________________

https://sites.google.com/site/obscureflamencology/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 26 2013 11:29:16
 
revendel

 

Posts: 97
Joined: Dec. 27 2013
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Brendan

thanks!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 29 2013 15:02:02
 
Kiko_Roca

Posts: 82
Joined: Apr. 25 2016
From: Midwest, USA

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Brendan

Here is a 2009 Master's thesis that I had come across previously:

Flamenco and Its Gitanos An Investigation of the Paradox of Andalusia: History, Politics and Dance Art BY Rosamaria E. Cisneros-Kostic.

https://repository.unm.edu/bitstream/handle/1928/10359/Thesis%20Final%20RCK%2004-09.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2016 18:37:50
 
Brendan

Posts: 153
Joined: Oct. 30 2010
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Kiko_Roca

Thanks! I've just read the abstract--seems kinda ambitious for an MA!

_____________________________

https://sites.google.com/site/obscureflamencology/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 10:38:31
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2745
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Brendan

quote:

Some of it dates back to the days when Flamenco was the affordable exotic; some of the more recent stuff understands that exoticing the Other is a trope of hegemony and that flamenco is a performative dialectic of conformity and resistance in a site of praxis... or something.


Your statement quoted above reads like a send-up of post-modernism, much as the "Sokal hoax" was in 1996. Alan Sokal, a physics professor at New York University, revealed the shallow, jargon-filled nonsense so beloved of "post-modern," literary critics and "cultural studies" types published in journals such as "Social Text." Sokal entitled his article "Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity." In the article Sokal reviewed various current topics in physics and mathematics, and, tongue in cheek, drew various cultural, philosophical, and political morals that he felt would appeal to fashionable academic commentators who question the claims of science to objectivity.

One of Sokal's "footnotes" reads: "Just as liberal feminists are frequently content with a minimal agenda of legal and social equality for women and 'pro-choice', so liberal (and even some socialist) mathematicians are often content to work within the hegemonic Zermelo–Fraenkel framework (which, reflecting its nineteenth-century liberal origins, already incorporates the axiom of equality) supplemented only by the axiom of choice."

After reading the article and Sokal's admission that it was all a hoax, some wag, referring to the post-modern, Lit-Crit deconstructionists running rampant in U.S. university English and Cultural Studies Departments, said: "I invite anyone questioning the objective facts established by science to step out of my second-story office window, and on his way down explain once again why gravity is simply a Western social construct."

The editors of "Social Text" deserved all the opprobrium and ridicule heaped upon them. What irritated them more than Sokal's breaking the rules of academic engagement was that they fell for it, revealing their own lack of academic rigor and their shallow pursuit of the latest academic "trend."

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 12:10:35
 
Piwin

Posts: 2046
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

I expect you won't enjoy this thesis by Rosamaria E. Cisneros-Kostic. I haven't got through the whole of it yet, but here is an excerpt of the introduction:

"This is an important investigation because many
scholars, who have written about flamenco, write from an outsider’s perspective.
However, as an American Roma as well as a dancer and a woman who has lived in Spain
for many years, my perspective offers insight into an often misunderstood and
misrepresented world. I write as a scholar as well as a mover, who innately comprehends
the flamenco art form as well as the Roma tradition".

Perhaps this is common currency in today's academia but it strikes me as being completely off-topic and unscientific. It could be an interesting point for a biography perhaps, not for an academic study. Next we'll read a thesis on mathematics: "this is an important contribution to the field of mathematics because both my parents and also my grandparents were mathematicians, which is not the case of most researchers"...

Someone may also want to explain to her the mean of "innate"...

_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 16:49:16
 
kitarist

Posts: 362
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Brendan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brendan

I've read most of the academic books in English about flamenco, so I wondered what journal articles there are.


Have you read Lola Fernández's book "Flamenco Music Theory"? It is fairly recent so perhaps it was not on your radar when you wrote this in 2013.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 17:49:19
 
kitarist

Posts: 362
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

I expect you won't enjoy this thesis by Rosamaria E. Cisneros-Kostic. I haven't got through the whole of it yet, but here is an excerpt of the introduction:

"This is an important investigation because many
scholars, who have written about flamenco, write from an outsider’s perspective.
However, as an American Roma as well as a dancer and a woman who has lived in Spain
for many years, my perspective offers insight into an often misunderstood and
misrepresented world. I write as a scholar as well as a mover, who innately comprehends
the flamenco art form as well as the Roma tradition".

Perhaps this is common currency in today's academia but it strikes me as being completely off-topic and unscientific. It could be an interesting point for a biography perhaps, not for an academic study. Next we'll read a thesis on mathematics: "this is an important contribution to the field of mathematics because both my parents and also my grandparents were mathematicians, which is not the case of most researchers"...


I don't agree - and your analogy is flawed. Flamenco is a living art expressed by a gypsy culture - of course it would be beneficial to have lived the culture to more deeply understand that art. Mathematics is not a cultural exponent but a formal tool for scientific inquiry, each field of which is defined exactly by its axioms and theorems; understanding it deeply does not require anything else.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 18:04:36
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2745
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

as an American Roma as well as a dancer and a woman who has lived in Spain


Ah yes, Ms. Cisneros-Kostic's credentials as an expert are impeccable. Who but she would be in a better position to explain and interpret flamenco as an art form. To be fully accepted into the Lit Crit/Cultural Studies crowd, however, I suggest she entitle her thesis, "A Hermeneutics of Flamenco as an Art Form: How the Gitano Culture has been Distorted by Western Concepts of Quantum Woo."

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 18:09:25
 
Piwin

Posts: 2046
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RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

@BarkellWH
Ah good ol' quantum woo. Thank God we have Deepak Chopra to decipher all that woo for us!

@kitarist
You do understand that an analogy is just that, an analogy, right? If I had wanted to say "it is the exact same thing as..." then I would have said "it is the exact same thing as...". The analogy is only partial, a tool to help explain a point of view.
Anyways, the point is that claiming a certain ancestry doesn't go far (or shouldn't go far) in academics. In any case, it shouldn't be something that you brand as a credential. When someone does, a lot of red lights start flashing for me. Her thesis may be good, I haven't read through it all yet, and she may have some good insights. But I seriously doubt she can explain something that the so-called non-Roma researchers couldn't (those who are doing there jobs seriously that is). I also belong to a specific social group with own history/culture/art etc. I don't feel anymore qualified to conduct a scientific study on this group than a skilled and dedicated outsider though. I wouldn't expect this person to have had the same experiences I've had but, then again, that's not really what we expect from our researchers is it? Experiencing something is one thing, being able to explain it is another. Try this flawed analogy: Dian Fossey wasn't a gorilla, but when it comes to conducting a scientific study on gorillas, I trust her credentials more than those of a gorilla.

_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 19:06:36
 
kitarist

Posts: 362
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

@kitarist
You do understand that an analogy is just that, an analogy, right? If I had wanted to say "it is the exact same thing as..." then I would have said "it is the exact same thing as...". The analogy is only partial, a tool to help explain a point of view.


Yours is a faulty analogy; it's a logical fallacy. So it is not a tool to explain, but instead confuses the issue by way of using faulty logic. This is why I wrote "yours is a flawed analogy" rather than say "this is not the exact same thing". You do comprehend the difference between these two concepts, right, despite the way you reacted?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 19:36:54
 
Piwin

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Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to kitarist

I'm not sure how you think I reacted. It seems you think there was some agression intended. Trust me there wasn't.
That being said you're going to have to do better than just stating that it's a "logical fallacy". I think I made my position clear in my response and I'm more than happy to discuss (who knows, you might even change my mind!) but you're going to have to go further than just "you're wrong." and give me some subject-matter to discuss...

_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 19:43:57
 
kitarist

Posts: 362
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

Flamenco is a living art expressed by a gypsy culture - of course it would be beneficial to have lived the culture to more deeply understand that art. Mathematics is not a cultural exponent but a formal tool for scientific inquiry, each field of which is defined exactly by its axioms and theorems; understanding it deeply does not require anything else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

That being said you're going to have to do better than just stating that it's a "logical fallacy". I think I made my position clear in my response and I'm more than happy to discuss (who knows, you might even change my mind!) but you're going to have to go further than just "you're wrong." and give me some subject-matter to discuss...


I did - here's what I said on why I think your analogy is flawed:
"Flamenco is a living art expressed by a gypsy culture - of course it would be beneficial to have lived the culture to more deeply understand that art. Mathematics is not a cultural exponent but a formal tool for scientific inquiry, each field of which is defined exactly by its axioms and theorems; understanding it deeply does not require anything else. "

You did read it, right? If so, how could you say above "you're going to have to go further than just "you're wrong." and give me some subject-matter to discuss"?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 19:45:55
 
Piwin

Posts: 2046
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to kitarist

Wow. You type fast!

Thanks for reposting your previous comments but those are the ones I attempted to address in my previous response. I guess I didn't get through.
Let me try another angle: I get that your concern with my analogy to mathematics is that it is a very different subject-matter than flamenco or, speaking broadly, culture. I suppose this is where you saw an instance of faulty logic (apples and oranges, comparing what can't be compared?)? I'm not sure the difference is as big as you seem to think it is though. After all, both are learned and acquired over time through exposure and practice. I hope at the very least that it is clear that I'm not saying that you can study flamenco culture in a dark library room on the other side of the planet and get the best insight on what is going on. Obviously this is the kind of study that would require some field work. That being said, I don't think the fact that she was born Roma is such a great credential that it she should feel the need to mention it in her thesis. As I tried to say before, the advantage she has over "outsiders" is purely experiential. If that is the sole basis of her study, than it should be a case study, nothing more. It's anecdotal. If, however, she's trying to draw wider conclusions from her own personal experience, she'd have to jump through quite a few hoops and put a lot of trust in inductive reasoning and extrapolation. That's just not the way science works. When it comes to those wider conclusions, she's no better equipped than anybody else who has the same academic training as her.

_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 20:13:32
 
kitarist

Posts: 362
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

Wow. You type fast!

Thanks for reposting your previous comments but those are the ones I attempted to address in my previous response. I guess I didn't get through.
Let me try another angle: I get that your concern with my analogy to mathematics is that it is a very different subject-matter than flamenco or, speaking broadly, culture.


Not just 'very different' - fundamentally different in that mathematics is a precisely defined and complete description (thus it does not need experiential knowledge of any kind to supplement its understanding.)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 20:21:28
 
kitarist

Posts: 362
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

. If that is the sole basis of her study, than it should be a case study, nothing more. It's anecdotal. If, however, she's trying to draw wider conclusions from her own personal experience, she'd have to jump through quite a few hoops and put a lot of trust in inductive reasoning and extrapolation. That's just not the way science works. When it comes to those wider conclusions, she's no better equipped than anybody else who has the same academic training as her.


As to this, I am sort of bothered by it - you seem to read a lot into a couple of lines in the introduction - have you read the 300-page thesis? I haven't yet. So let's not extrapolate from 2 sentences. As to you previously claiming I saw aggression where none existed - I did infer aggression in part because of something I did not quote but you did say - your passive-aggressive attack on her using the word 'innately'. That just seemed totally out of proportion to the alleged offense in what is likely a second-language. I mean, I don't even know exactly what was so out of place with her using it - it means naturally and synonyms like that - maybe a slightly awkward as in "innately comprehends", but so what - it is sort of a pedantic objection as her use of that word and phrase does not obscure or mislead or misrepresent what she is trying to say.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 20:25:27
 
Piwin

Posts: 2046
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to kitarist

I'm not sure you get what I mean by "experiential", or, if so, we fundamentally disagree on what the entire scientific process is about. As far as I can see, you don't need any experiential knowledge to study a culture... The purpose of field work is not to get a first-person experience that you can then discuss. It is to get close to the subject-matter you are studying, since it is not as simple as going to the local library as you could most likely do for most of your subject-matter in mathematics.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 20:31:36
 
Piwin

Posts: 2046
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to kitarist

quote:

have you read the 300-page thesis?


I've stated clearly that I haven't. And have even gone on to say that her thesis might in fact be very good...
As for the word "innate", it has a specific meaning. And in fact, you're right, I am extrapolating. I'm extrapolating from years of living side by side with gipsy communities who love to distinguish between the insider and the outsider in terms of "innateness". You'll never be as a good because you're not from their bloodline. Perhaps it was just a clumbsy use of the term. But it could also be her reproducing a distasteful pattern that pervades most gipsy communities I've lived in. If that were the case, it would further suggest that she's reproducing a pattern from this community that she knows so well without even being aware of it. Which was kind of my point in saying that being Roma isn't much of a credential for a scientific study on the Roma. But you're right, there's no way to tell just on the basis of that intro.

_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 20:38:05
 
kitarist

Posts: 362
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

quote:

have you read the 300-page thesis?


I've stated clearly that I haven't. And have even gone on to say that her thesis might in fact be very good...
As for the word "innate", it has a specific meaning. And in fact, you're right, I am extrapolating. I'm extrapolating from years of living side by side with gipsy communities who love to distinguish between the insider and the outsider in terms of "innateness". You'll never be as a good because you're not from their bloodline. Perhaps it was just a clumbsy use of the term. But it could also be her reproducing a distasteful pattern that pervades most gipsy communities I've lived in. If that were the case, it would further suggest that she's reproducing a pattern from this community that she knows so well without even being aware of it. Which was kind of my point in saying that being Roma isn't much of a credential for a scientific study on the Roma. But you're right, there's no way to tell just on the basis of that intro.


So you might be projecting the sins of others onto her.
Okay, let's revisit after we both read it, which I am looking forward to.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 20:45:48
 
Piwin

Posts: 2046
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to kitarist

quote:

So you might be projecting the sins of others onto her. Okay, let's revisit after we both read it, which I am looking forward to.


The irony is that I've just given myself as a good example of why I don't believe any kind of first-person experience is a good basis for credentials in academic studies .
Enjoy the read!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 20:50:08
 
kitarist

Posts: 362
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

I'm not sure you get what I mean by "experiential", or, if so, we fundamentally disagree on what the entire scientific process is about. As far as I can see, you don't need any experiential knowledge to study a culture... The purpose of field work is not to get a first-person experience that you can then discuss. It is to get close to the subject-matter you are studying, since it is not as simple as going to the local library as you could most likely do for most of your subject-matter in mathematics.


It is not the purpose, but in the case of cultural studies it is an added bonus. I mean, you say "it is to get close to the subject-matter you are studying" - well, she can get closer than most. It does not guarantee a superior result, but at least there is some chance she would identify, describe and analyze important characteristics that were missed by others.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 20:50:09
 
kitarist

Posts: 362
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

As for the word "innate", it has a specific meaning. And in fact, you're right, I am extrapolating. I'm extrapolating from years of living side by side with gipsy communities who love to distinguish between the insider and the outsider in terms of "innateness". You'll never be as a good because you're not from their bloodline.


BTW, just on this, I've thought about this in other contexts too (tango), I think there is more to it than this. The holders of the original art which was produced by that specific culture are sort of pushed constantly by the art's "consumers" to define it, chunk-size it, distinguish it clearly from other forms, meet high expectations for it to be (and stay) unique and "exotic" and different - so it is saleable, commodifiable; so that it keeps its 'allure' and defined boundaries. And this leads to incredible pressure to claim that only the originators can produce it in its true form - both because of these pressures and for business reasons. Whether the gypsy communities truly believe this is almost beside the point.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 21:00:00
 
Piwin

Posts: 2046
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to kitarist

It's an interesting take but we part ways when you say:
quote:

Whether the gypsy communities truly believe this is almost beside the point.

What people actually believe can never be besides the point, in particular in any kind of social science. There has been a longstanding trend in social sciences, in particular in the US, of explaining everything by geopolitical or economic factors and refusing to consider beliefs as something that can have real-life consequences. This has led to many incorrect of incomplete analyses over the years. At this point, the exponential increase in our knowledge of neurosciences (among other things) leaves no other option but to factor in beliefs. The social sciences will either change course in light of the discoveries being made in these other fields, or will part ways with science entirely. Time will tell, but I suppose that is a much broader discussion than the one at hand and probably best left for another day.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 21:59:17
 
Kiko_Roca

Posts: 82
Joined: Apr. 25 2016
From: Midwest, USA

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

I expect you won't enjoy this thesis by Rosamaria E. Cisneros-Kostic. I haven't got through the whole of it yet, but here is an excerpt of the introduction:

"This is an important investigation because many
scholars, who have written about flamenco, write from an outsider’s perspective.
However, as an American Roma as well as a dancer and a woman who has lived in Spain
for many years, my perspective offers insight into an often misunderstood and
misrepresented world. I write as a scholar as well as a mover, who innately comprehends
the flamenco art form as well as the Roma tradition".

Perhaps this is common currency in today's academia but it strikes me as being completely off-topic and unscientific. It could be an interesting point for a biography perhaps, not for an academic study. Next we'll read a thesis on mathematics: "this is an important contribution to the field of mathematics because both my parents and also my grandparents were mathematicians, which is not the case of most researchers"...

Someone may also want to explain to her the mean of "innate"...


It is a thesis for a MA in Theater and Dance more or less focusing on some aspects of flamenco history as far as I can tell - not sure what you were expecting. She's published a few things on Roma history and women in what appears to be peer reviewed journals, so I assume her ability to parse information from the dozen pages of references in her thesis is competent. I've not read much of it though so I can't personally attest to that.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2016 22:30:13
 
Piwin

Posts: 2046
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Kiko_Roca

No worries Kiko_Roca. I was just ranting on one particular aspect that peeved me. I have no reason to doubt that she is otherwise competent in what she does and I look forward to finding the time to read more of her thesis.

_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 29 2016 9:51:50
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2745
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

I was just ranting on one particular aspect that peeved me. I have no reason to doubt that she is otherwise competent in what she does


She may be competent in what she does, but not necessarily for the reasons listed in the excerpt from her introduction repeated below.

"This is an important investigation because many scholars, who have written about flamenco, write from an outsider’s perspective.
However, as an American Roma as well as a dancer and a woman who has lived in Spain for many years, my perspective offers insight into an often misunderstood and misrepresented world. I write as a scholar as well as a mover, who innately comprehends the flamenco art form as well as the Roma tradition."

She first creates a straw man in "many scholars, who have written about flamenco, write from an outsider's perspective," and compares them to her own "important investigation," and lists her qualifications as being "an American Roma as well as a dancer and a woman who has lived in Spain." She further embellishes her credentials by noting that she writes "as a scholar as well as a mover."

Well now, let's review the bidding. To whom is she referring when she speaks of many scholars who have written about flamenco from an outsider's perspective? Most scholars who have written seriously about flamenco have spoken Spanish, have lived in Spain, and have made a serious study of flamenco. Moreover, how does being an "American Roma" qualify her as an authority on the gitanos of Andalucia? I suspect an "American Roma" has few linkages to said gitanos, who have been influenced in very different ways than the American Roma. I happen to have Welsh, English, and French heritage, yet my Welsh heritage, in and of itself, hardly qualifies me to expound on the Welsh character. Anymore than an American Black "innately", as she puts it, comprehends the art forms of Togo or the Gambia.

Judging from her introductory excerpt, I don't see that she is any more qualified to be considered an "insider" than those she dismisses as "outsiders." From one point of view, anyone who is not an Andalucian gitano can be considered an outsider. She may be, as she rather pompously suggests, a "scholar as well as a mover," but she appears to be every bit as much an outsider as those she so cavalierly dismisses. Perhaps she will have something to say in her thesis, but it always raises a red flag when someone begins by attempting to embellish her own credentials by dismissing those of others.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 29 2016 14:55:33
 
Piwin

Posts: 2046
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

I suspect an "American Roma" has few linkages to said gitanos, who have been influenced in very different ways than the American Roma


This reminds me of a work trip I went on in Nigeria a few years back. In the group I was accompanying, there were a few African-American scholars from Howard University who we're going to Africa for the first time. I had traveled rather extensively in that region of Africa and, though not an expert, not by a long shot, had already been thrown enough curve balls to know what to expect, and to understand that expression of dismay that anyone who has lived in that region will know all too well: Wawa (West Africa wins again). These were men for whom Africa had become a strong icon, an integral part of their own identity. They left rather shaken by the realization of how foreign this land was to them and how American they were after all. I don't know what they made of it, once they had time to process everything they had experienced, but it was interesting to see identity collide with reality.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 29 2016 15:22:07
 
Escribano

Posts: 5780
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

They left rather shaken by the realization of how foreign this land was to them and how American they were after all. I don't know what they made of it, once they had time to process everything they had experienced, but it was interesting to see identity collide with reality


I saw the same when having worked in Ghana, I moved to D.C. and warned an African-American colleague, who was going to visit as a tourist, that her understanding of her history might take a knock. When she returned, she was appropriately contemplative.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 29 2016 16:15:20
 
Mark2

Posts: 1429
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Academic Articles About Flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

I have business relationships with many American gypsies. While there may be some cultural similarity to Spanish gypsy flamencos, the gypsies I know have zero knowledge of, or interest in, flamenco. So unless she comes from a flamenco family, her knowledge, though it may be extensive, has nothing to do with her heritage. The fact that she touts the connection, while certainly knowing the level of interest in flamenco among American gypsies, is a red flag. But that hardly makes her unique, in that many foreign performers play up their own connection to the source in the form of claiming Spanish blood, adopting Spanish names, etc.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH

quote:

I was just ranting on one particular aspect that peeved me. I have no reason to doubt that she is otherwise competent in what she does


She may be competent in what she does, but not necessarily for the reasons listed in the excerpt from her introduction repeated below.

"This is an important investigation because many scholars, who have written about flamenco, write from an outsider’s perspective.
However, as an American Roma as well as a dancer and a woman who has lived in Spain for many years, my perspective offers insight into an often misunderstood and misrepresented world. I write as a scholar as well as a mover, who innately comprehends the flamenco art form as well as the Roma tradition."

She first creates a straw man in "many scholars, who have written about flamenco, write from an outsider's perspective," and compares them to her own "important investigation," and lists her qualifications as being "an American Roma as well as a dancer and a woman who has lived in Spain." She further embellishes her credentials by noting that she writes "as a scholar as well as a mover."

Well now, let's review the bidding. To whom is she referring when she speaks of many scholars who have written about flamenco from an outsider's perspective? Most scholars who have written seriously about flamenco have spoken Spanish, have lived in Spain, and have made a serious study of flamenco. Moreover, how does being an "American Roma" qualify her as an authority on the gitanos of Andalucia? I suspect an "American Roma" has few linkages to said gitanos, who have been influenced in very different ways than the American Roma. I happen to have Welsh, English, and French heritage, yet my Welsh heritage, in and of itself, hardly qualifies me to expound on the Welsh character. Anymore than an American Black "innately", as she puts it, comprehends the art forms of Togo or the Gambia.

Judging from her introductory excerpt, I don't see that she is any more qualified to be considered an "insider" than those she dismisses as "outsiders." From one point of view, anyone who is not an Andalucian gitano can be considered an outsider. She may be, as she rather pompously suggests, a "scholar as well as a mover," but she appears to be every bit as much an outsider as those she so cavalierly dismisses. Perhaps she will have something to say in her thesis, but it always raises a red flag when someone begins by attempting to embellish her own credentials by dismissing those of others.

Bill

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 29 2016 17:02:22
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