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Grisha I'm just a curious 20 notes per second is super fast can you provide a video ?
Well, I try not to do that these days. I feel bringing that much attention to the technical aspect of playing gives people a false impression of me as an artist. I only do these sorts of things when someone challenges me. I had a private video up on youtube which had 19,5 note per second run with 3 fingers. But after posting these videos I always feel like a schoolboy.
One thing I can say for sure is that I cannot match Kema's runs with 2 fingers for now. He has more stamina, better control and seems like a bigger speed reserve.
I feel that Paco transitioned from being the passionate poet into being more like the intellectual philosopher. Some youthful explosive energy is gone now, but other things were acquired that make up for the loss.
Right on Todd. I heard a recent interview with Tomatito on Nuestro Flamenco and he says that Paco is so important and influential especially on his (Tomatito's) compositions.
Well grisha I understand, the videos which are just about speed don't make any sense anyway 3 fingers seems the only way to achieve that speed but it's tirando like arpeggios / tremolo and even when amplified I always find that the attack is not sufficient particularly when you 're not alone, the notes are not as well defined ...
But don't misjudge me I don't criticize you, i simply outline some of the characteristics which are inherent to our instrument I believe. I absolutely love your playing and your interpretations of some of the "standards" of the flamenco I'm one of your biggest fan that's for sure :)
In your recent video I find some pieces that I like very much : the minera from Vicente one of this best composition in my mind with morente the granaina that you also play) I will be glad if you play sierra del agua (rondena from vivenvias or el mandaito :) )
PS for the speed freaks : (odd time grouping also, shawn played some indie music like john at the end of his career, here he just showing showing some ideas). he was also a virtuoso at piano :)
Technique notwithstanding, I managed less than a minute of it. Elevator disco music. Not intending to be dismissive, I sampled several more videos and heard nothing to make me want to listen to any farther, let alone, say, buy a CD. But then, I don't care for the Gipsy Kings either.
Technique notwithstanding, I managed less than a minute of it. Elevator disco music. Not intending to be dismissive, I sampled several more videos and heard nothing to make me want to listen to any farther, let alone, say, buy a CD. But then, I don't care for the Gipsy Kings either.
I think there's a plenty one can learn from these videos.
And I keep hearing about Siroco, maybe I just need to put it in the CD player a little and give it another chance. I do love Almoraima and Solo Quiero Caminar.
yes you do! I don't like the production so much, but the compositions and playing are great.
and what about Castro Marin? Some overlap with Solo Quiero Caminar (and older albums) but some interesting variations.
And if you like Almoraima what about Fuente Y Caudal?
I like the flowing and relaxed way Kema plays rumbero style with such a fast speed, as if its nothing. Its obvious that he eats, sleeps and breathes this stuff. And he obviously also plays other flamenco styles than rumba very well too.
But i think when he plays a real flamenco guitar (and not that white thing :D), then Antonio for instance plays cleaner, louder, more consistent (tone, attack, evenness, etc.)
Might be that as a result, Antonios speed is a bit lower (i think he can also faster than this, but lets assume it).
Kema is probably more used to amplified sound, and therefore probably he is not as loud or strong when playing a pure unamplified flamenco guitar. That i see in the video Rui Martins posted in the first page of this thread.
Then again, when you play the rumba stuff like in the first video with that type of guitar, the way Kema does it just sounds perfect.
Anyway, because of all these nuances and differences, i think there is no point in comparing these players, speed, etc.
They have different tastes, sounds, etc. which fits to their prefered styles (and instruments).
I'm gonna side with grisha and todd on this one, clearly kema's picado is better than rey or rosario that's just a fact : he's faster and his movements are very economical but music is not technic and here the music is not very interesting ...
I don't consider it a fact at all. I play the rumbas Kema was playing and he is not so amazing even though he is faster and cleaner than most (Morea at 126bpm, just 6 tuplets). I would not be scared to jam with him, but those guys in madrid are damn scary. I saw Rey accompany Farruco and for his guitar solo he played Zyrab like it was nothing, just costume change filler.
Pharaon around 97 bpm is what my group usually plays it at. 8's I can do in bursts. WHere he tries to do a long run around 3:50 he misses some notes crossing strings and such, again at 4:56 missing notes...normal problems, and doesn't "look" especially efficient either, seems he is very tense and really pushing his limits. I might make some vids jamming with my drum machine for comparison (that meaning, I know damn well I am not a really fast player). For comparison PDL does Med sun and frevo etc at a cool 107 bpm. Chanela is 115 bpm, considerable faster than Kema here. THere is a vid of Banderas with Paco and he makes 8's like it's no problem on a Rumba thats more like 117bpm.
and what about Castro Marin? Some overlap with Solo Quiero Caminar (and older albums) but some interesting variations.
For some reason i never liked/played that album that much. When i played it again years later i painfully discovered were that beautiful mineras falseta came from i composed a couple of years before. I knew i embedded a small part of his Soleares in the middle part of my falseta, but as it turned out the wonderful beginning was stolen from Castro Marin (the same part also triggered a bulerias falseta of Tomatito). So suddenly only the end still seemed to be from myself which is still a very nice effort since you can hardly hear were he ends and i begin.
He was very productive that year and released both Solo Quiero Caminar, Castro Marin and Friday Night in San Francisco in 1981.
I don't consider it a fact at all. I play the rumbas Kema was playing and he is not so amazing even though he is faster and cleaner than most (Morea at 126bpm, just 6 tuplets). I would not be scared to jam with him, but those guys in madrid are damn scary. I saw Rey accompany Farruco and for his guitar solo he played Zyrab like it was nothing, just costume change filler.
Pharaon around 97 bpm is what my group usually plays it at. 8's I can do in bursts. WHere he tries to do a long run around 3:50 he misses some notes crossing strings and such, again at 4:56 missing notes...normal problems, and doesn't "look" especially efficient either, seems he is very tense and really pushing his limits. I might make some vids jamming with my drum machine for comparison (that meaning, I know damn well I am not a really fast player). For comparison PDL does Med sun and frevo etc at a cool 107 bpm. Chanela is 115 bpm, considerable faster than Kema here. THere is a vid of Banderas with Paco and he makes 8's like it's no problem on a Rumba thats more like 117bpm.
totally. Ok, I know I am not as fast as mr Kema etc etc, but here I am noodling on the same tune as grisha posted about the same tempo (its kinda of fast compared to how I like to play it of course). Now I know I am not that fast or as fast as him, but if I get warmed up I can come close. My only point is that I KNOW that my level is WAY below those guys in Madrid...they scare me to be honest.
Here is noodles take 1 and take 2, no warm ups, all mistakes and crap included, I just set up and went for it.
THe wrist strum is tough at that speed to do lightly like he does....and this guitar sucks too.
I prefer the original tempo, with straight 16th note runs (Tonino), instead of speeding it way up and playing 16th triplets (like Kema).
I would also say that triplets, to me at least, feel a bit easier to play.
Funny to see Ricardo call his video "Kema wannabee".
Kema only dreams of playing and writing like Ricardo. I think Kema is the only wannabee in this thread. He wants to be Tonino or Paco, and he's not even close.
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interesting thread,i cant understand all but now it's like a competition of who have the longest penis.
Ricardo you're a good player,the things you dont have comparaison to kema , it's the "explosion" in the first notes of the scales,i dont know how to translate that exactly.
And this thing is important for speed and power like kema. For example the guy in the second vid is a friend of mine,normally is a solist rumba too. He play good with clean play,but he dont have the explosion,in picado and abanico. Look the abanico of kema,it s very fast of start to end with regularity.
Ok when you accompagning baile,year after year the resgueados ,abanico ...are more consistant speed and powerfull,the work pay,but im sure there are an ability of every human when he start. otherwise it would not exist the paco,antonio rey, nuñez....
i dont know why it's so important for you the picados? a consistant and clean picado like moraito and it's ok. For a solist rumba player it's the job so ok. But look diego morao,one of the best and dont use picado. Riqueni dont have a good picado and what? Manuel parrilla ,number one ,have a very good explosive picado,i know because i know him,but in stage or disc he never use picado.
El Carbonero, Ricardo's picado sounded excellent to me. I don't know what you mean about "explosion" at all. He was playing the notes as fast and virtuosically as they needed to be played. With all due respect to Kema's ability, Ricardo's playing was _better_ than his, more interesting, musical, exciting, and logical. He could step in and cover for Kema or Tonino or any of the rumba groups and nothing would be missed.
On a more visceral level, the Antonio Rey clips were the sickest, IMO. I had never heard him play. His tech is crazy, like Nino de Pura but somehow of a bit higher quality maybe.
i dont know why it's so important for you the picados? a consistant and clean picado like moraito and it's ok. For a solist rumba player it's the job so ok. But look diego morao,one of the best and dont use picado. Riqueni dont have a good picado and what? Manuel parrilla ,number one ,have a very good explosive picado,i know because i know him,but in stage or disc he never use picado.
Hey you are preaching to the choir here. I love all kinds of players for reasons as you say. Normally I don't care about picado at all, but I think I mainly wanted to make Grisha give himself more credit or something as he seemed to feel this Kema guy to be orders of magnitude better than everyone. Anyway, truth is it is fun to jam on this rumba stuff, a great way to interact with other guitar players even of different styles. There is the healthy competition when jamming that is so satisfying. THe thing is, if you are simply not at a certain level, then it is not really gonna work jamming with people in a different calibur. And speed and timing often (not always but often) clearly draw that line between people's level of ability. I personally always try to push myself in hopes I one day encounter greater and greater artists than myself, so I can learn and get better too. That not only goes for picados and jazzy flamenco fusions but also for accompanying dancers and singers. And I admit I like singers better in the sense I feel I have more to learn there. Dance tends to often be more about how fast you catch on to weird rhythms and how well you memorize involved choreography.
1999 gypsy kings cordoba. Really close string spacings, high action, stiff pulsation.... the worst!. Ha ha, but at least it is a cut away and when plugged in super loud it's very well balanced.
1999 gypsy kings cordoba. Really close string spacings, high action, stiff pulsation.... the worst!. Ha ha, but at least it is a cut away and when plugged in super loud it's very well balanced.
interesting thread,i cant understand all but now it's like a competition of who have the longest penis.
Ricardo you're a good player,the things you dont have comparaison to kema , it's the "explosion" in the first notes of the scales,i dont know how to translate that exactly.
And this thing is important for speed and power like kema. For example the guy in the second vid is a friend of mine,normally is a solist rumba too. He play good with clean play,but he dont have the explosion,in picado and abanico. Look the abanico of kema,it s very fast of start to end with regularity.
Ok when you accompagning baile,year after year the resgueados ,abanico ...are more consistant speed and powerfull,the work pay,but im sure there are an ability of every human when he start. otherwise it would not exist the paco,antonio rey, nuñez....
i dont know why it's so important for you the picados? a consistant and clean picado like moraito and it's ok. For a solist rumba player it's the job so ok. But look diego morao,one of the best and dont use picado. Riqueni dont have a good picado and what? Manuel parrilla ,number one ,have a very good explosive picado,i know because i know him,but in stage or disc he never use picado.
so basically one penis is very long but thin. another one is a little shorter but pretty thick. but all do a pretty good job and can "explode" if necessary.
...and then there is Paco's penis, which is very long and thick and extremely explosive
so basically one penis is very long but thin. another one is a little shorter but pretty thick. but all do a pretty good job and can "explode" if necessary.
...and then there is Paco's penis, which is very long and thick and extremely explosive
Welp, that's it, thread's over. I don't think any posts are going to top this one. :P
Like you Grisha I find a lot to admire. Certainly his stamina is awesome, anyone can play a few beats of fast triplets....... but eight bars ?
For my ears there is a lot missing in his soloing. When the chord progressions are purely diatonic there are almost no colour tones. When the progressions modulate he changes scale with the chord so no anticipation or preparation.
Most frustrating of all, for me, is the fact that (open string licks excluded) there are seldom intervals greater than a third and almost never two consecutive intervals greater than a second except in half time playing.
The long Entre dos Aguas Jam has almost nothing to distinguish one variation from another. Almost no thematic development of any substance. so blah blahh, it's not my cup of tea.
But I am impressed that an artist of your stature can be so earnestly admiring of the accomplishments of others. That seems like TRUE confidence to me, jealousy, insecurity and delusion manifests themselves quite differently.
What do you think of this jam ? Picked almost at random with two very different players. Certainly not as technically perfect as the Kema stuff but I think it has a lot of the things which I personally miss in the Rumbero/Trio style. In particular genuine experimentation and jeopardy.
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totally. Ok, I know I am not as fast as mr Kema etc etc, but here I am noodling on the same tune as grisha posted about the same tempo (its kinda of fast compared to how I like to play it of course). Now I know I am not that fast or as fast as him, but if I get warmed up I can come close. My only point is that I KNOW that my level is WAY below those guys in Madrid...they scare me to be honest. 
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