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RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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 RE: emotion in music in general and ... (in reply to Ricardo)
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Mathematical theorems are true, but all of them are of the form "IF a THEN b." For example: "IF the axioms of Euclidean geometry are true, THEN the sum of the angles of a triangle is 180 degrees." But on the surface of the Earth, the sum of the angles of a triangle is greater than 180 degrees, since the axioms of Euclidean geometry are not true on the Earth's curved surface.
Physical laws have a provisional sort of truth, not absolute. Newtonian physics suffices for the design of an automobile, but not for the operation of the GPS system, which must take into account the effects of Special Relativity. Classical thermodynamics and electromagnetic theory suffice for much of the design of vacuum tubes, but not for transistors. Quantum theory had some of its origins in Einstein's explanation the photoelectric effect, first studied in vacuum tubes.
Furthermore, we have no way to combine the effects of gravity on space-time with particle physics which deals with the components of matter at subatomic levels.
Physical theories are mathematical models which predict the outcomes of experiments. The most accurate theories predict the outcomes with amazing precision. But no competent scientist regards a scientific theory as the ultimate truth.
RNJ
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Date Sep. 11 2013 17:19:40
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guitarbuddha
Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
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RE: emotion in music in general and ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan
Mathematical theorems are true, but all of them are of the form "IF a THEN b." For example: "IF the axioms of Euclidean geometry are true, THEN the sum of the angles of a triangle is 180 degrees." But on the surface of the Earth, the sum of the angles of a triangle is greater than 180 degrees, since the axioms of Euclidean geometry are not true on the Earth's curved surface.
Physical laws have a provisional sort of truth, not absolute. Newtonian physics suffices for the design of an automobile, but not for the operation of the GPS system, which must take into account the effects of Special Relativity. Classical thermodynamics and electromagnetic theory suffice for much of the design of vacuum tubes, but not for transistors. Quantum theory had some of its origins in Einstein's explanation the photoelectric effect, first studied in vacuum tubes.
Furthermore, we have no way to combine the effects of gravity on space-time with particle physics which deals with the components of matter at subatomic levels.
Physical theories are mathematical models which predict the outcomes of experiments. The most accurate theories predict the outcomes with amazing precision. But no competent scientist regards a scientific theory as the ultimate truth.
RNJ
Well, I suppose that's one way of putting it. Certainly less deliberately silly than mine.
Strange how we can be in such complete agreement Richard and yet express ourselves with such wildly differing styles.
And good call on Ruphus line which was, as you say, pretty damn pithy.
D.
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Date Sep. 11 2013 17:26:06
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: emotion in music in general and ... (in reply to guitarbuddha)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha
Well, I suppose that's one way of putting it. Certainly less deliberately silly than mine.
Strange how we can be in such complete agreement Richard and yet express ourselves with such wildly differing styles.
And good call on Ruphus line which was, as you say, pretty damn pithy.
D.
I've been reading mathematics and physics lately, so the logic circuits are warmed up and eager to operate.
They say that to read poetry, one must be a poet en passant. You read math and physics with pen and paper at hand, ready to decipher, calculate, draw or check.
I've also been reading Caro's huge 4-volume (so far) biography of Lyndon Johnson. Until now, I didn't think I could get any more cynical about politics. According to Caro, nobody could be more cynical about politics than Lyndon.
RNJ
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Date Sep. 11 2013 18:03:30
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: emotion in music in general and ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
Furthermore, we have no way to combine the effects of gravity on space-time with particle physics which deals with the components of matter at subatomic levels.
Ah, the Holy Grail of physics, the Unified Field Theory that would integrate gravity with the other three forces: electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force, and the weak nuclear force. I'm betting that someone eventually will make that breakthrough, but not in the lifetime of anyone on this Foro.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Sep. 11 2013 18:25:51
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: emotion in music in general and ... (in reply to aeolus)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: aeolus
Landslide Lyndon JFK called him. With a little push from Duval county. Urban legend has it that he and Allan Shivers got into a tiff and decided to settle it in a jalapeno eating contest squaring off with a bowl of the peppers and a bottle of whisky. No doubt myth but it's the sort of tall tale Texans love.
According to Caro, shortly after being sworn in to the Senate, he introduced himself as "Landslide Lyndon." According to several people who knew him, and not only his allies, he boasted openly of having stolen the election.
I thought it was Duval county as well. In fact, it was Ballot Box 13 at Alice in adjoining Jim Wells County, also under control of the caudillo of Duval County, George Parr.
I never heard the Shivers story. I used to run into Shivers at the local gas station. He would get out of his Cadillac limo while his chauffeur filled it with gas, and chat. He always pointed out to a new acquaintance that he employed a chauffeur because of his failing eyesight. He was always pleasant, friendly and unassuming in conversation.
I never heard him apologize for his antebellum mansion nearby, whose gardens covered a couple of city blocks of Austin's most expensive residential real estate.
The jalapeño story seems out of character with the courtly southern gentleman image Shivers projected, but you never know.
If Lyndon had a taste for hot peppers, it would have been acquired after he left home in the Hill Country, and also after he left college at San Marcos. In those days the northern extent of Mexican food was somewhere between San Antonio and New Braunfels.
Lyndon did teach in the "Mexican school" at Cotulla, on the wrong side of the railroad tracks in the little poverty stricken town between San Antonio and Laredo. He would have had plenty of opportunity to try some Tex-Mex there.
I do still remember fairly clearly the time when I was four years old and accompanied my father and uncle in the courtyard of a cantina on the West Side of San Antonio. There was a frosted pitcher of beer on the table, and a large bowl of jalapeños. The sweat stood out on the foreheads of my father and uncle as they swigged and chomped.
RNJ
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Date Sep. 11 2013 20:35:28
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: emotion in music in general and ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
Of course, in Washington DC in the 1950s, no one had heard of such a thing as Mexican food.
There are now many Mexican restaurants in the Washington, DC Metropolitan area, but I have yet to come across one that compares with the very best in Arizona and New Mexico. For the most part, they are mediocre. I don't know much about Mexican restaurants in Texas, but then I don't consider Tex-Mex food as real Mexican, although as a regional cuisine it is good in its own right.
An interesting phenomenon occurred in the 1980s regarding Mexican food in Washington, DC, and it was a direct result of the Salvadoran refugees who came to the area due to the Central American conflicts at the time. Like immigrant communities everywhere, many Salvadorans opened up restaurants. The problem was, they were not getting many customers because no one knew or had experienced Salvadoran food. So they began advertising their restaurants as serving "Mexican and Salvadoran" food. People began to patronize their restaurants, but it was the "Mexican" that drew them in.
I had spent two years assigned to Honduras, whose cuisine is similar to Salvadoran, so I have gone to Salvadoran restaurants for the pupusas, black beans and rice, which are very good. I have to say, however, that their version of Mexican fails to meet the standard. But then that's the opinion of a guy who grew up in Arizona with a mother who lived in Mexico her first sixteen year before coming to the US. Between my mother's Mexican food and the superb restaurants in Arizona, I guess I'm spoiled.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Sep. 12 2013 0:12:57
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: emotion in music in general and ... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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Same deal with some of the Salvadoran restaurants in the San Francisco Bay area when I lived there half the time in the 1980s. But Coatepeque in the Mission district was pure Salvadoran, and one of the best restaurants I ever enjoyed. It was cheap, a family place, and served food excellently prepared from carefully chosen ingredients. I miss it still.
In Texas nowadays you can get Mexican food. Fonda San Miguel, El Meson and, I am told, one other in Austin serve it. Other places serve some Mexican dishes, but include Tex-Mex so as not to disppoint Texan expectations. Curra's serves a pretty authentic cochinito pibil with roasted plantains from Yucatan, but also has chili con queso and enchiladas with red chile for the Tex-Mex fans.
As I'm sure you know, there's no sharp dividing line at the Rio Grande. Tex-Mex gradually morphs into the more economical part of the cuisine of northern Tamaulipas, Nuevo Leon, Coahuila and Chihuahua as you travel southward--what people in Mexico City call "cocina norteña." The spiciest food is in a strip that runs along both sides of the river. Cabrito extends from Matehuala, or maybe San Luis Potosi as far north as San Antonio, but you won't get sopa de lentejas much north of Monterrey. And tiny Mi Ranchito here in Austin seves delicious puerco en salsa verde that could just as well be in Michoacan, where the family comes from...and an authentic torta chilanga. There's a 24/7 bakery/restaurant where, one night a week, you can get as good a caldo de res as I've ever had. I'm usually the only gringo there, but they seem to have gotten used to me, more or less.
Now, if we could just get some of those street food carts from Bangkok.....and a good tapas bar...and...
RNJ
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Date Sep. 12 2013 1:42:03
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