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ORIGINAL: Ruphus

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ORIGINAL: pink

Way to easy to over complicate things here by expecting that the correct technique will present itself to you in a very short space of time. Touch the strings, feel the guitar, enjoy the sound, the texture and just get to know it. Your hands will develop their own touch the longer you play and thus your own technique will evolve....you will read,watch,listen shout , swear ...do all the things a human is pre programmed to do whilst you learn,but be sure that if you want to play then you will learn. No right way , no wrong way. You work on bodies and as you know our bodies have the habit of being able to do some extraordinary things if we allow them to . Don't force it just listen to what your body says to you and accept. As we learn more technique then we adapt what we know naturally to get it right for ourselves.
Good luck and enjoy.
pink

That seems no good avice at all, Pink.
In a civilisation so detouched from natural being that kids suffer all kind of motoric misconception, it should be more than clear that your body will NOT tell you most ergonomical ways.
It would need certain preconditions first, and whether those suffice for something as special like guitar playing shows to be rather questionable still.

People cherrish the idea of body matters settling in by default and at best even with something like instinct for humans ( who have none ), leaving out that we are no lemur.

Relying on your body and precondidtional routines to execute guitar techniques will work out for a very small minority, and be a needlessly winded often times hard to repair road for the vast majority.

Let beginners´ questions be answered as technically profound as possible.
... Sometimes it will even help advanced players, justby remembering certain aspects while giving / reading advice on useful approach.

Ruphus

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Hey Ruphus I really don't give a lemurs right testicle if you think my post is good advice or not!
This is my opinion and it is how I feel.
I have suggested that the body should not be forced but allowed to develop...simple.
My words ,my feelings and like you my right to comment and suggest .
Hope that meets with your exacting criticism

Pink

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I dont think there should be any problem with Ruphus giving his point of view on your comment, it doesnt changes anything on YOUR point of view and the nice thing about a forum like this is to be able to discuss subjects. Anyway, that's my opinion...

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A lot of people doubt this method and I can understand why. It takes absolutely ages to get any good at it.

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ORIGINAL: Ricardo
My only issue is with your description of the mechanics, things like saying vicente is doing something totally different than paco etc, is simply false.

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ORIGINAL: junheng

On the other hand, to *force* my body into configurations without paying attention to its natural ways is courting disaster - nature and the laws of science cannot be fooled!

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ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

Hamia,
maybe Vicente pushes it down more because he likes a darker, fuller sound and Paco pulls more because he wants more snap. If this is true, they are not different techniques but just different individuals changing the parameters slightly to get a different sound.

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I think that Vicente and Paco both use the middle knuckle method but that for some reason (hand size, flexing of last joint, etc) Vicente seems to push the string downwards (towards the top) more than Paco does. So slightly different not completely different!

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ORIGINAL: hamia



Bent fingers using the large knuckle will be more efficient than using straight fingers - but still there is no "leverage" and it can't be more efficient than using the middle knuckle.

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ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

I was hammering in fence posts yesterday. Now I used to swing a great big hammer in a round house motion from my shoulder standing about a three feet away. But yesterday, following your excellent advice I cut two feet of the hammer shaft stood real close and, immobilising my shoulders, I applied force only from my elbow.

I know that that was right cause Grouch Marx appeared in a blonde wig and told me that was how Paco did it.

Still that may be neither here nor there. How about finger independance and how it diminishes as you approach the tip of the finger. Perhaps that is relevant.

D.

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What do you mean ''play from the same point of contact''' just to be clear ..?

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ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Quite different than what you said earlier, which I think is a good sign. Won't be long before you realize they actually doing both the same thing. Perhaps you are holding on to an idea you THINK you are doing? Paco is faster than Vicente and therefore more efficient in his movements. He bends the index a little tiny bit more. Probably you and others have the same problem, as you go past your comfy speed limit your index straightens out. It stops "looking" efficient and it is only because of speed limitations. No one can doubt paco's efficiency and control of speed....but pulling the string with his middle knuckle he is NOT. The big joint is pushing down the whole finger as a unit with the middle joint bent. It's no different than other fast guys that play with straight fingers that are also as fast and efficient. Perhaps it is easier to "see" in video shots of picado where he doesn't play as fast? Watch him do some slower medium speed picados. It's the staccato that forces the movement to look more efficient as he doesn't pre set each stroke when not playing staccato.

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But note that he uses a middle knuckle free stroke which suggests to me

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ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

I practice both ways (bent and straight). I feel that this is a faster way to make the fingers learn for themselves whats their preferred position so that they decide how they want to do it and I only have to focus on what I want to play (instead of how).

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Nicely put. Always best to let your body find out rather than to decide who you want to agree with.

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ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

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Nicely put. Always best to let your body find out rather than to decide who you want to agree with.

My old tendonitis always reminds me of this fact

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ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Dude...you can't "see" what he is doing in slow motion, but you somehow CAN see THAT??? Makes no sense at all. Stop blinding yourself with your own idea of seeing what you WANT to see. It's crystal clear. Seen from this angle you no longer see middle knuckle drive you thought you saw before. His big joint is driving the entire finger... both fingers, for all those apoyandos. It was always this way and still for him today. Of course arps tirando the finger tips are pulled up away from the adjacent strings by curling the fingers into little fists. Different than picado.

Ricardo

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The middle knuckle method kicks in when the finger makes contact with the string and the difference between large and small knuckle methods in that final small movement following string contact is very hard to distinguish on a video