Yet another newbie here desperately seeks foro members advice:)

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Garam

Posts: 28
Joined: Jun. 25 2013
From: Corea del sur

Yet another newbie here desperately ...

Hi dear foro members,

I am a literally total novice to this genre and this instrument.
I've been lurking this forum for a week and searched through several threads to find out how total beginner who doesn't even know how to play a guitar can learn flamenco. I found several beginner question threads but everyone seemed to be already familiar with guitar not like me. Many of you might have already been through this kind of question but please help me learn flamenco. Flamenco is not popular here in Korea so it is impossible for me to find a teacher. I contacted several guitar lesson centers but they don't teach flamenco so I guess I'll have to learn by myself. Any advice on what to start and what guitar to choose would be appreciated.
I have few guitars on mind but they don't even have proper flamenco guitar dealers here so only way to get one is through ebay and amazon which makes it almost double their price due to ridiculous shipping cost.
English is not my first language so please excuse me for my crappy explanation. Thank you all for taking time to read this.

Kang

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2013 18:59:15

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

Annyong-haseyo?
I wouldn't think you need a specific flamenco guitar if you are really an absolute beginner to flamenco and to the guitar itself ....any reasonable classical guitar will do , or even nylon string electro acoustic ,, almost anything really ..

You will be learning flamenco for years to come so you will know when its time to move on...
I myself have a Yamaha flamenco , as do many of us here .....and we all know where Yamaha come from ..

Oh and welcome to the foro by the way ,....
Chotsumnida

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2013 20:44:10

Garam

Posts: 28
Joined: Jun. 25 2013
From: Corea del sur

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to El Kiko)

Thanks for the reply and warm welcome El kiko!

Yes I've definitely been looking for one of those yamaha's but Yamaha dealers in Korea don't have 171 or 172SF. That's what I've been doing for this past week.
I've also tried to buy them from amazon but they restricted shipping area so I coudn't buy it on there. Plus, the ridiculus shipping costs. The one suppose to be only 250~350 costs 100~200 U.S dollars added to it. So if I am going to be okay with just a normal classical guitars, I can get it anywhere here. But I've read several threads here and they say you'd get bad habits or something so it worries me.

Same goes for learning guitar. Some say total beginner should stick to learning how to play guitars first, and others say you sould imitate others playing and start learning compas first. Now I;m really confused :$

Kang

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2013 21:04:04

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

You can play Flamenco on any Spanish guitar, and indeed some top flamenco guitarists (e.g. Serranito) have used the classical instrument.

A flamenco guitar must have tapping-plates (golpeadores,) but if the worst comes to the worst you can make them out of cardboard and Scotch-tape them to your instrument — that's what I did as a beginner. You should also be able to get stick-on ones by mail.

The following are the best beginner’s books I’m aware of:

Juan Grecos: The Flamenco Guitar
Juan Serrano: Flamenco Guitar — Basic Techniques
Juan Martín: El Arte Flamenco de la Guitarra

As to the lack of a teacher, that’s unfortunate but you’re a lot better off than you would have been a couple of decades ago: now there are decent video tutorials. I particular recommend those by Juan Martín and Gerhard Graf-Martínez. The latter assumes a moderate knowledge of the guitar.

South Korea uses NTSC, right? So better get them from Amazon US.

I wish you the best of luck.

Your English is fine.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2013 21:07:16

Garam

Posts: 28
Joined: Jun. 25 2013
From: Corea del sur

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

I bow to you Paul!

That sure is a lot of good information. I'm certainly going to try your recommendations.
To ask one more thing, do you think I can start right off with these flamenco books?(which I hope I could but...)

Kang

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2013 21:18:23

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

quote:

do you think I can start right off with these flamenco books?

I don’t see why not.

Absent a flamenco teacher, an occasional lesson from a classical guitarist might be helpful from time to time, to keep you from developing bad habits — especially in the left hand, which is the same for both instruments.

You should be able to order them from amazon.com.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2013 22:28:20

mrgearbox

Posts: 24
Joined: Feb. 25 2011

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

I sent you a p.m. but I'd recommend Adam at www.newlearningvision.com hands down! Especially if you're new to the flamenco guitar and the style for that matter.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 2:52:26

por medio

Posts: 289
Joined: Nov. 15 2009

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

Books are good too, but listen to lots and lots of cante / guitar accompaniments. You need to put everything into context and you won't know what the solo guitar "pieces" really mean until you know the context from which it comes.

Youtube is great of course.

And oh, have some skype lessons, if you want to do it really properly. Someone around the foro - e.g. Ricardo - can do this for you. It'll be worth EVERY cent because it's absolutely important that you start off the right pathway.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 3:43:54

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

I know guy in Korea who is American and he plays flamenco. He is a foro member. I'll alert him to this thread and see if he can help you. You may even live in the same city.

Put a note in your title which says some thing like "Korea flamenco afcionado" others might be in Korea and see it.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 10:15:02

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to estebanana)

In addition to the tutorials, I would recommend Youtube, which might sound obvious but there are a lot of great tutorials.

Before getting a flamenco guitar (which in Korea might be a difficult thing to do), I would recommend playing it on a converted classical guitar first.

For turning a classical guitar into one to play flamenco on it (which is what I did) I recommend either buying a new saddle or lowering your existing one by filing it down/sanding it down (I used sandpaper for mine).

I put on Kling-On top protectors to act as Golpe's for my classical, which may be able to be purchased ebay or something. Otherwise look for some sticky back plastic (which isn't too sticky) and cut to shape.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 10:26:31

Garam

Posts: 28
Joined: Jun. 25 2013
From: Corea del sur

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

Thanks a millolion guys!
I've been away assemblying my new computer!

Paul/ I'm glad I can start right off with flamenco even though I don't even know chords :p Afterall, it's the flamenco I'm interested in not other classical or other stuffs

Mrgearbox/ Im trully grateful to you taking your precious time to pm me! The info you gave me is certainly now in the list of what Im going to try!

Por medlo/ Yes I couldnt agree with you more. Just like what they said in the threads ive read before. Im going to listen a lot by the classification of compas and palos? If i understanded correctly. Im also curious if you guys recommend me to practice palmas.

estebanana/ Thank you for your offer sir:) sure, korea is flooding with people from various origins unlike decades ago. I don't see why not they start teaching something original from their countries! Korea flamenco aficionado is a nice suggestion of you but Im kind of embarrased to call myself an aficionado;) Im just a beginner who merely put a foot on this world for now. Maybe in a few years of staying in flamenco would allow me to call myself an aficionado! So i'll just put my home country to my title

tijeretamiel/ Thank you for your suggestion, sure ive been watching youtube tutorials this past week but they seem to be too high level for me to imitate :/ Maybe I'll have to dig up some more. And the guitar, I almost gave up on getting a flamenco here so I think I'll have to what you and people here told me ;) But Im going to get that authentic sound surely oneday

Again thanks to you all:)

Kang

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 14:09:34

Garam

Posts: 28
Joined: Jun. 25 2013
From: Corea del sur

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

Decided to get a used classical guitar and have it set for flamenco. I think I'll have to go to some luthier but I doubt they know flamenco settings for guitar so I might have to explain for him.

Saddle down
8.5mm between 12th fret
A protector as golpeadore

Anythingelse I should do?

Kang

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 14:50:10

sig

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

Kang,
When I started out with flamenco I didn't have a flamenco guitar. I had an old Epiphone classical and lowered the saddle and added a tap plate to protect the top. I used this instrument for 2 years witout any issues. If you truly have never touched a guitar I would highly recommend finding at least a guitar teacher to work with to get you off to a good start. They may not understand flamenco but at least they can help you navigate the instrument. Concurrent to that, you can certainly use on line tutorials and lessons but it would be a big help if you knew how to at least form and play some of the basic chords.

Don't be afraid to ask questions and everyone here is very helpful to beginners!
Sig--
p.s. I agree, your english is fine...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 15:46:20

Garam

Posts: 28
Joined: Jun. 25 2013
From: Corea del sur

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to sig)

Dear sig,

That is very nice of you to tell me your own experience. That kind of advice is certainly what I was looking for here. I'm slowly getting concrete idea about how I should do exactly.

Kang

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 16:17:11

Jurriaan

Posts: 48
Joined: Dec. 14 2011
From: Netherlands

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

I can second the advice to try Adam Del Monte; he taught me to play flamenco (and now after 2,5 years I can say that I'm an intermediate player, which I never held possible because i thought it would be impossible to learn). He starts with the very basics (how to hold the guitar, how to hit a string correctly) - this will prevent you from learning the wrong technique (which may take a lot of time to unlearn). Also his lessons are afordable if you ask me. Good luck (the very beginning takes some dedication, but you will be very motivated once you realize it is possible to learn this beautiful technique).

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Playing music is not difficult - you just have to play the right note at the right time (J.S. Bach)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 21:17:42

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

quote:

Saddle down
8.5mm between 12th fret
A protector as golpeadore

Anythingelse I should do?

Slow down man, dont ask for 8.5mm at the 12th fret!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 1:14:36

NenadK

Posts: 137
Joined: Jun. 6 2010

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

I started by learning from books as well (Arte Flamenco de la Guitarra by Juan Martin). I did learn a lot of stuff that I know will be useful but I also picked up a few habits that I was told were not very good by 2 different teacher's I've had. In my experience learning falsetas (musical phrases) from the book is fine for the most part but you will not learn to accompany dance or singers from a book. The books also heavily favor solo guitar techniques and do not put enough emphasis on playing compas which is the first thing you should be concerned with.

Regarding instructors, I've taken lessons over skype with Ricardo Marlow who is a member of this forum and am extremely happy. He also records videos of the lessons which you can download later and refer back to it whenever you need to. I highly recommend him.

http://ricardomarlow.com/Richard_Marlows_Website/Home.html

Good luck! :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 4:02:37

Garam

Posts: 28
Joined: Jun. 25 2013
From: Corea del sur

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

Thank you guys! Guess I did a right job to ask here

Jurriaan/ Since you and several members here recommended Adam, I gave a good look at his site. It sure looked like something right for me to start with. The price seems affordable as you said:)

Rui Martins/ Yeah, this is something I don't fully understand about. I've checked several guitar review threads and many of them complained their guitar being of high action(distance between strings and fret right?). I don't remember exactly what thread it was but Ive seen somewhere that 8.5~9.5 is the ideal distance. This is confusing for me :/

NenadK/Hmm so learning by myself will be rather risky then. Im definitely considering a lesson with him but only after Ive picked up enough information to fully understand his lesson.

I hope I could put a right first step on flamenco. There is nothing to be rushed right? I'm enjoying reading threads here and getting information about flamenco is very enjoyable:)

Kang

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 6:18:00

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Garam

Rui Martins/ Yeah, this is something I don't fully understand about. I've checked several guitar review threads and many of them complained their guitar being of high action(distance between strings and fret right?). I don't remember exactly what thread it was but Ive seen somewhere that 8.5~9.5 is the ideal distance. This is confusing for me :/

8.5-9.5mm at the 12th fret is massive! I had a 3-4mm action or low on my classical guitar at the 12th fret after I lowered the action (it had a bit of buzz which isn't a bad thing).

If you do ever decide to upgrade to a proper flamenco guitar it may work out a 'better deal' finding a luthier in Korea or even Japan. Stephen Faulk is based in Japan now, he might be able to provide a better idea to luthiers out there (who is a amazing luthier himself). I imagine there are some very talented luthiers in those nations who could build a great guitar for you if needed be.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 8:20:20

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

quote:

Saddle down
8.5mm between 12th fret
A protector as golpeadore

Anythingelse I should do?

Just get a second hand classical guitar and slap a golpeadore on it to protect it against the golpes. That will be enough for a good couple of years. Don't bother with bringing the saddle down, etc; it might bring down your resale chances!

I would start with Ricardo's online lessons. He will set you on the right course and will give you enough of right material to practice without wasting your time. Also another advantage of taking lessons from a good teacher is that you'll learn techniques and the teacher shows you how to implement them in music.

Good luck,
A

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 11:57:19

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

To clear it up... You must have misread that somewhere.

8.5mm would be the measurement between the top of the guitar and the underside of the strings at the saddle. You can forget about this one if you're adapting a classical guitar. The next one is the important measurement for you.

At the 12th fret its 2.5 to 3mm measured from the underside of the string to the top of the fret. If your guitar is a piece of crap you might have to end up with a little more than 3mm.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 12:28:35

Garam

Posts: 28
Joined: Jun. 25 2013
From: Corea del sur

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Thank you guys!
Now I understood what's the deal. I can't wait to get started :)

Kang

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 10:34:25

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

Garam,
Stan Olmstead will be teaching a flamenco guitar class here: http://www.somos.co.kr/
Starting on July 20th

I saw his announcement on Facebook. Get in touch with him, he's a cool dude.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2013 10:36:43

Garam

Posts: 28
Joined: Jun. 25 2013
From: Corea del sur

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to estebanana)

Wow so there IS a session in seoul. Thank you very much mr.este, I really appreciate your kind effort. The place seems a little far from where I live so it might take some time to get there. And my budget is little tight this month there are too much to spend elsewhere. I'll figure it out anyway thanks again!

Kang

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 8 2013 23:03:53

nickmontez

Posts: 29
Joined: Jul. 23 2012
From: San Diego in route to Yokosuka, Japan

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

I've been playing flamenco for about a year now. I had no prior guitar experience and started with the yamaha. I fell in love with guitar playing and have built a flamenco negra.

I started learing from youtube and a few books. I then got a few lessons here and there from a few different teachers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2013 16:14:01

changue

Posts: 187
Joined: Aug. 31 2010
From: London

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

You built a negra...? Ole!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2013 17:40:43

Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to changue)

quote:

ORIGINAL: changue

You built a negra...? Ole!

He did. I got to play it before he moved to Japan. The bridge was a little high, but the feel and sound were surprisingly good!

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2013 18:35:01

nickmontez

Posts: 29
Joined: Jul. 23 2012
From: San Diego in route to Yokosuka, Japan

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to changue)

I am planing to lower the string height a bit. All my tools are boxed up and on their way overseas. I am going to plane down the fingerboard and do a refret job. I actually discovered the Foro from doing google searches on luthiere.

Garam - I am sure my travels in the Navy will take me to Korea. It would be cool to meet up with some fellow flamenco lovers. As far as learing flamenco...have you considered skype lessons? When I was in Maryland I was taking lessons from Ricardo and now that I am thousands of miles away I plan to continue with skype lessons.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2013 23:59:45

Garam

Posts: 28
Joined: Jun. 25 2013
From: Corea del sur

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to nickmontez)

HOLY! Built your own guitar wow... Did you have any experience before building your guitar? I don't think any normal person can pull that off. About skype lessons, yeah I checked mr. Ricardo's website and going to take one later, maybe after I have enough knowledge to understand what he says. Thanks! I hope I can at least know how to play guitar by the time you come here.

Kang

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2013 7:10:52

nickmontez

Posts: 29
Joined: Jul. 23 2012
From: San Diego in route to Yokosuka, Japan

RE: Yet another newbie here desperat... (in reply to Garam)

I didn't have much wood working experience. I build a small simple jewlery box for a friend and that was it. I did a lot of research and took my time. I made lots of little mistakes along the way. It was a learing experience. In the grand scheme of things those mistakes weren't a big deal, most of them were just slight deviaitons from what I envinsioned and did not change the sound of the instrument. I had a friend that build lost of large furniture items and he sort of was a wood working mentor. I bounced lots of ideas off of him about how to do some of the glue ups and what not. All in all, I did not have the skill set before I started but now I do. I am planing on building two more while I am overseas. It was a very fun and rewarding experince.

Ricardo does a great job of teaching new guitar players. I had very little experience and playing ability when I started with him. Just practice practice and then practice some more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2013 15:07:40