Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
Cante - What's it all about?
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
|
 RE: Cante - What's it all about? (in reply to Romanza)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Romanza
Very interesting thanks! Oh dear, the influence of technology gets everywhere! Thinking about it, I suppose some flamenco songs are also tributes to people, e.g to other flamenco artists, family members etc
Yes, definitely.
Also, get yourself a copy of Saura's Flamenco film -superb collection of flamenco artists, old and new, examples of baile/cante/toque ensemble and solo, the lot...
Beautifully shot, and you get translations of a lot of the cante which reveals more common themes.
_____________________________
Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 7 2005 14:41:17
 |
|
Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
|
|
RE: Cante - What's it all about? (in reply to Kate)
|
|
|
Kate, I have a few more questions on cante, would be great to get your input:
What is the (very rough) proportion of improvised lyrics vs written lyrics in flamenco?
Are traditional/pre-written lyrics generally confined to specific palos?
Amongst flamencos, how important are the actual quality of the lyrics vs the way in the which they are sung? To pick up on Doitsujin's point, I could be watching someone belting out some powerful cante with a tortured expression on their face, only to find out they are singing about a lemonade seller who's run out of lemonade or something. You know what I mean? Taking Saura's colection as a starting point there's nothing lyrically speaking I would describe as particularly profound, and a lot of material that seems almost child like in its simplicity. Is something being lost in translation, or is the lyical content secondary to the harmony, power, soul etc that the cantaor/cantaora puts into it?
No offence meant, of course, I am just trying to get a better handle on cante from a flamenco's perspective.
_____________________________
Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 7 2005 15:47:41
|
|
Kate
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
|
|
RE: Cante - What's it all about? (in reply to Jon Boyes)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jon Boyes
To pick up on Doitsujin's point, I could be watching someone belting out some powerful cante with a tortured expression on their face, only to find out they are singing about a lemonade seller who's run out of lemonade or something. You know what I mean? Taking Saura's colection as a starting point there's nothing lyrically speaking I would describe as particularly profound, and a lot of material that seems almost child like in its simplicity. Is something being lost in translation, or is the lyical content secondary to the harmony, power, soul etc that the cantaor/cantaora puts into it?
Its a question of perspective. For a Gypsy lemonade seller with a large family to feed running out of lemons would be a tragedy, no money, no food, hunger and death. I remember a Guardian reviewer who claimed Sauras film was a bunch of toothless old men singing about oranges. He totally missed the point. So much they sing about is symbolic. Ask Simon how it was in his village when the orange harvest was lost last winter. We may find the lyrics simple and child like but underneath there are profundities that we miss, as well as secondary and sometimes even personal meanings.
The kids from the Taller sing a song about a chicken under their Grandmother's bed. They have nothing to feed the chicken so the chicken cries. Of course it goes without saying that they have nothing to eat either. It is like a nursery rhyme and sung with gusto. The noise of the chicken kirikirikiri and the noise the Grandmothers empty stomach makes, as she farts. It is funny but also tragic. They sang it at a school in Chicago for mostly hispanic children and they squealed with delight, understanding not only the lyrics but the poverty.
Kate
_____________________________
Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 7 2005 16:28:43
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
RE: Cante - What's it all about? (in reply to Jon Boyes)
|
|
|
Dos gemelos me ha dado a mi Dios
Francisco Javier y Alejandro
dos gemelos me ha dado a mi Dios
y son un verdadero encanto
esos dos hijos de mi corazon
por eso yo los quiero tanto
Juan Silva, Por Cai, 1999 (por fandangos)
Quite personal and meaningful I should think.
Sean
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 7 2005 19:20:07
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
RE: Cante - What's it all about? (in reply to Kate)
|
|
|
How about:
Reloj de arena es tu cuerpo
te abrazo por la cintura
para que se detenga el tiempo
(por soleá)
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 7 2005 21:43:44
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
RE: Cante - What's it all about? (in reply to Ryan002)
|
|
|
Here is a letra you could never understand, without appreciating the culture it comes from:
En un verde prado
tendí mi pañuelo
salieron tres rosas
como tres luceros
(Alboreá)
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 8 2005 10:14:40
|
|
Kate
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
|
|
RE: Cante - What's it all about? (in reply to Guest)
|
|
|
This post refers to the letras Sean posted about the birth of twins.
Great example of personal letras and all the more powerful because of that. Another aspect of cante is that the culture it comes from has different values than us. Now I am not saying that we dont appreciate and celebrate the birth of twins but it all comes from a different angle. They express more. The only example I can give is personal. I dont have children and in the UK this would be accepted with little more than curiosity or a shrug of the shoulders and an awkward laugh maybe telling me I am lucky. When the Gitano community asked about my children and heard I was childless they simply and very genuinely wept for me.
To return to the songs, they are themes we all know well, love, desire, hate, vengeance but the values behind these emotions come from a community with a different sense of honor and values and knowing these adds to understanding of the songs.
The following letras were written by one of the mothers of the Taller children as a warning to the girls about forbidden love and to respect their fathers, ie no messing around girls.
Trabili, trabili, tran, tran, tran,
amores que son prohibidos
levántate tempranito
que mi padre está dormido
espéreme tu gitano
en la orillita del río.
Trabili, trabili...
Tratármelo con cariño
con respeto y con dulzura
que ese gitano es mi padre
y mi gran mayor fortuna.
Tribili, tribili...
This following song is 'popular' and is about the loss of respect due to stepping outside of the bounds of what is appropiate in the Gitano culture. The final line subtly reveals the girl concerned will now be considered a prostitute. "On getting on the boat, the boatman tells me, pretty girls dont pay with money ".
Que por la mancha que llevo en la frente
murmura la gente que soy pecadora
mientras yo me metía en mi pecho
mientras que en mi pecho la traición me llora.
No me digas que soy ingrata,
que a mi la traición me hiere
quien dice que los amores matan,
y otros amores que mueren
al pasar la barca, me dijo el barquero
las niñas bonitas, no pagan dinero.
I've not translated this because I reckon those interested are willing to work a bit to learn more Spanish, but any questions just ask.
Kate
_____________________________
Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 8 2005 10:37:02
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
RE: Cante - What's it all about? (in reply to Skai)
|
|
|
Here is a (loose) translation of the alboréa.
In a green meadow
I laid out my handkerchief
it showed three roses
like three bright stars
As you can see, it is just as meaningless in English, without an understanding of gitano culture.
Sean
(I have never been good at translation, this is work for Estela!)
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 8 2005 21:21:58
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
RE: Cante - What's it all about? (in reply to Guest)
|
|
|
Good fun, a cante thread 
Quisiera volverme yedra
y subir por las paredes
y penetrar en tu habitacion
para ver lo bonito que eres
I want to turn myself into ivy
and climb up the walls
and enter your room
to see how beautiful you are
(bulerías de Cádiz)
Sean
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 8 2005 21:35:00
|
|
Kate
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
|
|
RE: Cante - What's it all about? (in reply to Kate)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kate
Trabili, trabili, tran, tran, tran,
amores que son prohibidos
levántate tempranito
que mi padre está dormido
espéreme tu gitano
en la orillita del río.
Trabili, trabili...
Tratármelo con cariño
con respeto y con dulzura
que ese gitano es mi padre
y mi gran mayor fortuna.
Tribili, tribili...
Trabili, trabili, tran, tran, tran,
Forbidden lovers
You must rise early
My father is sleeping
wait for me, Gypsy
by the banks of the river.
Trabili, trabili...
Treat me with care
with respect and with sweetness
as that Gypsy is my father
and my biggest best fortune.
Tribili, tribili...
Kate
_____________________________
Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 9 2005 11:25:48
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.078125 secs.
|
Printable Version
