Solea'in Eminor... Diego Del Morao

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1] 2 > >>

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao

In my infamous attempt to compose a Solea' for the CD Challenge, I felt instinctively drawn to the Eminor key. However, I rarely hear any Solea in this [I suppose] 'unorthodox' key. Is this why the Palo is described as Ganania (Solea')?

How do you generally feel about resorting to different keys when composing in a Palo that traditionally is expected to be in a specifically given key [A minor or D minor -arriba y medio, as they say, for Solea']?

Here is DDM

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 16:36:47

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to gj Michelob)

So the million dollar question -

I love this piece of music, but like a lot of modern flamenco I'll never figure out
why it is specified as being particularly this or that?

So this is called a "Solea" ...? Mystery to me. Somebody will say surely, because
it meets this criteria by being this, this, and this. Bewildering.

I just think of it as a really nice composition. Not sure why it has to be
"categorized" it sure doesn't sound like a Solea, at least not to me.

Regards,
Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 16:48:21

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to gj Michelob)

Solea por buleria

I wouldn't label this video as "Solea".
(Even though as we all know solea and solea por buleria are basically the same, just different speed, rythmical feeling, etc.)
But this is a solea por bulerias.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 16:50:14

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to Arash)

quote:

Solea por buleria
I wouldn't label this video as "Solea".
(Even though as we all know solea and solea por buleria are basically the same, just different speed, rythmical feeling, etc.)
But this is a solea por bulerias.

Thank you, Arash. Two questions left:
1. Is the Eminor Key acceptable because it is a 'Solea por Buleria'?
2. What in the name... is a 'Ganania'

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 18:27:37

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

Solea por buleria

i second that :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 18:33:17

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to gj Michelob)

nvm..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 18:37:52

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

1. Is the Eminor Key acceptable because it is a 'Solea por Buleria'?
2. What in the name... is a 'Ganania'

I guess any key is acceptable for any palo as long as the spirit of the palo is caught by the player.
Granainas is one of the free forms of fandangos, like tarantas. One of the characteristics is a specific binding pattern fallowed by the sliding F#>B.

this is a nice one. The sliding part is played at 2:45.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 18:45:28

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

2. What in the name... is a 'Ganania'

quote:

Granainas is one of the free forms of fandangos, like tarantas.

I made the same mistake at the very beginning when this tune came out...I was confuzed too at that time.
It's not granaina but ganania.
I'm not sure but I think it's something related with the 'labores del campo', related with el ganado or something. A rural house or a farm I'd say

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 19:00:15

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mezzo

quote:

2. What in the name... is a 'Ganania'

quote:

Granainas is one of the free forms of fandangos, like tarantas.

I made the same mistake at the very beginning when this tune came out...I was confuzed too at that time.
It's not granaina but ganania.
I'm not sure but I think it's something related with the labores del campo. related with el ganado or something.

You goth a point there :-)

Now i have a question:

What is a Gañanía (as it is indeed spelled in above video) ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 19:04:29

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to Erik van Goch)

'ganania' is the name of the tune. Like 'entre 2 aguas'.
meaning : A rural house or a farm I'd say (but i'm not sure)

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 19:07:01

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mezzo

'ganania' is the name of the tune. Like 'entre 2 aguas'.

Thank God for that...at least not an other style i never heard of before :-)

...but i might have pissed off gj Michelob in believing he didn't know granainas :-)

sorry for that :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 19:10:41

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to gj Michelob)

I think I'm just going to be an amateur rumbero where everything is 4/4 and simple to understand..

Oh and Erik the expression is "got a point" ..a goth is a teenage girl who wears black lipstick..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 19:12:42

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to mark74)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark74

Oh and Erik the expression is "got a point" ..a goth is a teenage girl who wears black lipstick..

You got a point there as well (with 1 s) :-)

i believe this is not my day :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 19:21:37

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to gj Michelob)

I'm gonna probably state some BS coz of my absolute lack of theoritical knowledge. But this tune is played in an alterated tunning (more or less the same as the Rondena but not exactly the same).
So I don't get where the Em key came from.
If Am is for E phrygian
if Dm is for A phrygian
then Em is for B phrygian (aka granainas key).
but here is more or less a C#phrygian (rondena key) no? so it would be more or less Fm#.

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 19:31:55

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

How do you generally feel about resorting to different keys when composing in a Palo that traditionally is expected to be in a specifically given key [A minor or D minor -arriba y medio, as they say, for Solea']?

i think more common to hear flamencos refer to por arriba as "E major" and por medio as "A major" even though technically neither is correct in terms of classical written keys.... but when the home chord is E maj or A maj you can see where they are coming from.

i think there are some other threads about this track, toño and tuning etc.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 19:36:27

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to mezzo)

correct, the tuning is DADF#AD and it's in C#

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 19:40:03

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

quote:

correct, the tuning is DADF#AD and it's in C#

Yeah I remember you pointed it out a while back

quote:

i think more common to hear flamencos refer to por arriba as "E major" and por medio as "A major"

But if the solea por arriba is in E major key, then what would be the key for alegrias played with E7-B7 chords?

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 19:48:40

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to Erik van Goch)

oh i wasn't meaning to criticize just clarify...,i wouldnt criticize anyone from another country writing in english unless i knew their language

i think its great how so many of you guys in europe know 2 or more languages. i struggle with spanish and its my mothers native tongue

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 19:57:56

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to gj Michelob)

Man, this is such an awesome piece. How can someone listen to that and claim that flamenco guitarists don't use different colors and articulations.

(he did say he's almost deaf)

Sorry for the OT, but I had to say it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 20:05:51

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

quote:

correct, the tuning is DADF#AD and it's in C#

Some sensitive 'ear' there, good catch, _imiJ. And thank you.

Thank you Mezzo, for clarifying that Ganania is the title, not another Palo, yet.

Erik, when I first wrote the post, I too had misread the post and spelled out, Granainas. No offense, at all. In fact, in my mind I listened to it thinking it was going to sound as Granainas turning into Solea at some later point, and listened to it as if a 'Eminor/Bmajor key -and that betrays my pauper ear

And Mark74, I will pass your comment along to my fourTEEN year old daughter, who wears religiously only black, lipstick, along with black nail polish, clothing, backpack etc. to contrast of course the palest skin [that contrast being essential to 'Goth', apparently]...

Lastly, Mark Indigo, yes that was what i meant, with Arriba and Medio, but thank you for reminding me that it should properly read 'por'... Medio or Arriba.

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 20:11:09

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to mark74)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark74

oh i wasn't meaning to criticize just clarify...,i wouldnt criticize anyone from another country writing in english unless i knew their language

Don't worry, i loved your commend.... like i love the looks and outfit of goths :-) As a matter of fact, one of the better musicians of the netherlands happens to be goth as well. At Rotterdam Conservatory he switched from studying flamenco guitar to composition and with fabulous results. One of his inspirations are mechanically/electronically generated sounds, like using very long and thick metal cables that (ones vibrating and amplified) generate incredible sounds. His final exam was a real treat with all kinds of instrumental set ups/ styles of music, some of which were extremely complex, demanding and inspiring.

This is a bulerias suite he composed/performed quite recently .... it gives you an impression of his music and looks (he obviously is playing the electrical guitar)...if you don't like the beginning skip to the the second half.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 21:38:55

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to gj Michelob)

Interesting video Erik.........
That looks like an Ibanez Xiphos he's playing, Muhammed Suicmez's signature guitar. You sure he's not a metal head? People tend to confuse us with goth sometimes, we're not sad, we're angry

_____________________________

\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 21:56:47

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

That looks like an Ibanez Xiphos he's playing, Muhammed Suicmez's signature guitar. You sure he's not a metal head? People tend to confuse us with goth sometimes, we're not sad, we're angry

It sounds like you know way more about the subject then i do, so i gladly surrender.... metal head it is.

Funny he plays an Ibanez...i have a very player friendly Ibanez classical guitar from the early 70ties (fabric made in Japan) that i don't mind playing instead of my top class flamenco guitars.

i learned a lot on this page so far :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 22:00:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to gj Michelob)

Although the key he plays in is essentially the same as Rondeña, the form is SOLEA that he plays. We have discussed till blue in the face on the foro what complex details differentiate the labels SOLEA....SOLEA POR BULERIA and BULERIA POR SOLEA.

They are at times interchangeable depending on context. If you must wonder WHY did he label his solo piece SOLEA and not buleria por solea or solea por buleria, it is because he was thinking of doing THIS with his fasletas:

THIS s SOLEA, not buleria por solea that she is SINGING, despite the fact the movie makers labeled it solea POR BULERIAS. IF she had sung instead buleria por solea (buleria larga or corta) or solea de jerez (frijones etc) they could have labeled differently. For diego it doesnt matter the playing is the same. Hope that makes sense.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 23:15:16

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to Ricardo)

I'm pretty sure you're wrong

Sounds like guajira por siguiriyas to me

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 2:13:13

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to mark74)

Its quite interesting how much flamenco palos can be varied, for example in the beginning even Paco de Lucia was dissed by the purists that he stretched it too much, correct me if Im wrong though.
But that song is great.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 13:08:55

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

i think more common to hear flamencos refer to por arriba as "E major" and por medio as "A major"

But if the solea por arriba is in E major key, then what would be the key for alegrias played with E7-B7 chords?

E major, obviously

what i was trying to say in that post was that although technically it's not correct for por arriba (E phrygian) to be called E major, you do sometimes hear it referred to like that, i guess because the home chord is E major.

The point I was trying to make was that although the "key signature" fits when it's written in standard notation, por arriba (E phrygian) is not A minor!

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 13:30:31

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to mark indigo)

E dominant phrygian and A dominant phrygian

Often though in flamenco guitarists use notes outside the basic scale, for example using both dominant phrygian and phrygian but thats only one note difference, some others are also used.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 13:41:02

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to tele)

quote:

E dominant phrygian and A dominant phrygian

Often though in flamenco guitarists use notes outside the basic scale, for example using both dominant phrygian and phrygian but thats only one note difference, some others are also used.

easier to just call it por arriba or por medio and be done with it!

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 13:54:43

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Solea' in Eminor... Diego Del Morao (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

easier to just call it por arriba or por medio and be done with it!

Or just por taranta, por granaina, por minera, por rondena.
I just have no idea what would be called the D#, por moderno might do it

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 14:54:21