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z6
Posts: 225
Joined: Mar. 1 2011
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 RE: Grisha new videos! (in reply to Tom Blackshear)
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Tom, this is either mumbo or jumbo, or even both.
So, Stevie Wonder, or anyone with their eyes closed is denied duende? B o l l o c k s thrice squared.
But, no need to speculate. Why don't we test it, scientifically? All we need to do is get the universe to split into infinite copies of itself then analyze every interaction. It'll be easy. We don't even have to do it down to the subatomic level, we could do it the level of life and save a lot of computing time.
Of course, you'll have to build the gadget that does the splitting. Maybe one of the luthiers can build a jig to help out? Can we get a proper definition so we don't miss it though? Needs eyes and more than one person. Both with open eyes or is the presence of someone enough to allow it to happen to one person and not the other? But these are trifling details. So, it comes about once every 35 years? No sweat, we can run the experiment for say, a couple of million years or so.
If I didn't feel duende every time I play the guitar, I wouldn't do it. (of course, this isn't proper duende, it's more like spankin the duende.)
And lay off Grisha's technique. Classical indeed. I think not. Grisha is a unique proposition; he's writing his own chapters. Don't be fooled by your eyes. Use your lugs more.
I once knew a guy who practised in front of a mirror for up to twelve hours a day to copy, with infinitecimal and forensic detail, every nuance of John Williams' technique.
Hands up anyone who thinks he ended up sounding like John Williams? It looked like John Williams technique but it sounded like the way fish and chips tastes in a Sri Lankan restaurant where the chef has only seen pictures.
Grisha can publicly demonstrate his art, and the insecurities of a sensitive soul blessed with high intellingence as well as humility and a profound musical ability, but it will not change reality. He's allowed to 'hate his playing' but for anyone else to hate it is simply to state they cannot hear the magic about them, for example. (Not that you said that Tom, I'm just saying his willingness to share needs honesty from the rest of us.) But I've read people here saying they 'hate' Paco, for example. So anything is possible.
All this guy needs is work, gigs, earning money, and more gigs. Period. His right hand is neither classical nor is it flamenco. It is Grisha. I'd give my right arm for a right hand like that. How about a swap Grisha? I'll give you a weakling arm for your classical right hand and sort it out for you then give it back?
If you ever play in Switzerland, Ill be there Grisha.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 14 2013 17:40:24
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Bulerias2005
Posts: 632
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN
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RE: Grisha new videos! (in reply to Guest)
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I hope you guys realize that "duende" is hardly even flamenco in the first place. I'm almost certain that the term came about from Federico Garcia Lorca, and unless my knowledge of flamenco history is piss-poor, I'm pretty sure that flamenco existed before Lorca. 
From Wikipedia:
quote:
Drawing on popular usage and Spanish folklore, Federico García Lorca first developed the aesthetics of Duende in a lecture he gave in Buenos Aires in 1933, "Juego y teoria del duende" ("Play and Theory of the Duende").
Not to mention that this entire discussion is pointless. Duende, aire, what have you... yeah it's nice if you grew up in the culture... but it is CERTAINLY quite possible to gain a sufficient enough understanding of the music and to become imbued with the cultural nuances to an extent where one does justice to this music... flamenco is not a mystical art whose authentic manifestation depends on whether one is a Gypsy, Spaniard, a payo, or whatever else... it is all about the person's passion and dedication; if one has achieved a very high level of performance and personal expression and is still lambasted for their supposed lack of 'duende', then I think there are deeper issues at stake on the part of the one offering unsubstantiated criticism, including but not limited to jealousy, racially-motivated protectionism, reverse/hypocritical racism, etc...
Finally -- and this may be a reflection of my own bias, considering that I started my guitar studies with classical -- but I fail to see how having a "classical" technique can impede one's flamenco playing unless one fails to successfully incorporate flamenco techniques into one's "bag of tricks". Every single flamenco guitarist has a unique technique. Vicente's hand position is very unique. Paco's hand position is very unique. I can go on and on. Are their positions "classical" or "flamenco"? Does it even matter? Grisha's hand position is just as unique, and considering the strength of his technique and tone, I fail to see how it is a detriment in any capacity.
_____________________________
Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 14 2013 17:47:05
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Bulerias2005
Posts: 632
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN
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RE: Grisha new videos! (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Shroomy726
quote:
Not to mention that this entire discussion is pointless.
Agreed. That's kind of what we are all trying to say.
quote:
I hope you guys realize that "duende" is hardly even flamenco in the first place. I'm almost certain that the term came about from Federico Garcia Lorca, and unless my knowledge of flamenco history is piss-poor, I'm pretty sure that flamenco existed before Lorca.
From Wikipedia:
Drawing on popular usage and Spanish folklore, Federico García Lorca first developed the aesthetics of Duende in a lecture he gave in Buenos Aires in 1933, "Juego y teoria del duende" ("Play and Theory of the Duende").
Please research the phrase I quoted from Torres (see above).
I will, but in any case, duende as a strictly flamenco concept came about after both of them developed independently. Guys like Nino Ricardo never talked about duende -- they talked about "gracia". :)
_____________________________
Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 14 2013 20:22:11
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