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maple backs should always, and I repeat always, be domed 17% more than other backs. Its a general rule and its been discussed 117 times here.
Well, sorry to ask such an annoying question, I know doming was discussed regarding top and back, but not specific maple and WHY it's domed so much. You say it's been discussed so much but I can't turn up anything in the search. I tried several different searches and nothing about why maple must be bulging out so noticeably vs other woods. I often take time hunt for old threads that don't turn up in searches because I remember more or less when the topic was discussed. I figured a simple answer as why it is would be easier, and I had other questions about maple that I have not found in the searches, but I don't want to annoy anybody, jeeez.
I have seen several guitars with maple backs that are domed...including my guitar. Is this always the case and if so is there a reason?
Hi Ricardo,
I don't think your guitar is more domed because it is maple, but probably rather because of who made it. Amongst the several diverging schools of thoughts that you can find in lutherie, there are two that opposes each other with regard to the implication of the back in the sound. Some think it is better to let the back vibrate in resonance with the top (and thus contribute to the richness of the sound), while others want a none vibrating back (most of the time called 'reflective back', wrongly I think...) in order to avoid the back 'stealing' energy from the top, thus making a guitar with a better projection.
My guess is that the builder of your maple guitar is in the second school of thought. The more dome their is, the stiffer it is.
The fact that most of the maple guitars you saw seemed all more domed than normal could be just a coincidence. FWIW, I have never heard either of the need to put more dome in maple backs.
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From: Washington DC
RE: Maple back and sides? (in reply to Alain Moisan)
quote:
The fact that most of the maple guitars you saw seemed all more domed than normal could be just a coincidence. FWIW, I have never heard either of the need to put more dome in maple backs.
Ok, I accept that. It begs though why I haven't seen this extreme dome with other wood types. My next annoying question was about the types of maple... flamed vs tiger stripe vs curly etc, are they just different ways the same wood is or are they totally different types of trees (like the variety of rosewoods)??
Flamed, quilted, birds eye etc.. is the figure of the wood so I'm pretty sure one maple can be birds eye and the one next to it not. If I understand correctly it's due to all kinds of outside factors, climate, trauma, bugs etc....Probly certain species more prone to it then others..........maybe
Not like grain type where you can get different effects on how you cut it, IE vertical, wide, rotary etc....
Lets see if the luthiers agree...........me lowly carpenter......
Ok, I accept that. It begs though why I haven't seen this extreme dome with other wood types.
The last none Moisan flamenco I've seen was cypress and was seriously domed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
... are they just different ways the same wood is or are they totally different types of trees (like the variety of rosewoods)??
They would be different ways of the same wood. What Lenador explained is also my understanding of the phenomena. But I admit I have not made thourough search on that subject.
My next annoying question was about the types of maple... flamed vs tiger stripe vs curly etc, are they just different ways the same wood
There are several species of maple most could make good musical instruments if large enough lumber could be cut from a tree. The main distinctions are the Maples from Europe from areas such as the Balkans and the Maples from the New World, an example would be Big Leaf Maple.
The different grain and figures revealed in lumber are a result of how the wood was cut whether on the slab, on the quarter, rift sawn etc. Consult Wiki for a diagram of how the different cuts are rendered from a tree section. Maybe search on 'Maple lumber figure' or 'violin wood figure' something like that. It's a big subject really and you could read up in general on how wood is processed for instruments and learn a great deal. Instrument makers have to have a working knowledge of these concepts, but it is a lot of time spent away from the bench to have to explain what can be learned by anyone who will read a good book on wood science and lumber technology.
The two main kinds of Maple used in guitar making are the ones I mentioned, Big Leaf and what is called European Maple, don't bother me for the Linnean names, look them up. There is a third Maple that is called 'English Sycamore', it is often used as well.
Here is how they basically stack up:
Big Leaf Maple is typically a bit more dense and heavier than Euro Maple, and English Sycamore is generally the lightest in both color and weight. All these Maples when properly cut can render the flame figure that is so coveted.
That said the Maples are generally stable, easy to bend woods that make excellent instruments even if they exhibit very little figure. There are many species of Maple that range from small ornamental species, bonsai sized, which seldom if ever grow large enough to make an instrument grade wood to rather large robust Maples like the Big Leaf Maples.
When all else fails ask a Canadian about maples. They are experts at Maple identification. They just produced a new Canadian bill with the wrong species of Maple depicted instead of the species which is the national symbol. It has something to do with how many points the leaf has.
RE: Maple back and sides? (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
The different grain and figures revealed in lumber are a result of how the wood was cut whether on the slab, on the quarter, rift sawn etc.
Even though different way a log can be cut will show different grain figures in the resulting boards, flamed, quilted and birdseye figures do not happen this way. These figures are the effect of wavy grain direction in the tree itself.
Flame, tiger stripe, and curly have been interchangeably used by a lot of people to mean the same thing. I believe though at one point they were used separately to describe the same visual pattern but on different cuts; flatsawn, riftsawn and quartersawn.
Don't expect the right answer from a bunch of dumb woodcutters, or luthiers who still mix up flatsawn and riftsawn
Euro Maple is sold as English Sycamore who's name literally translates as, maple false sycamore; unless of course you're talking about the Balkan Maple.
I had other questions about maple that I have not found in the searches, but I don't want to annoy anybody, jeeez.
Sorry, it was just a bad joke. Go ahead. We havent discussed maple very much... And there werent any irony or sarcasm inthis last statement. (Its difficult to navigate this foro sometimes. You never know when someone is serious or not)
I'm working on a birdseye maple guitar. Today i showed it to an experienced luthier. He said the matter about doming a maple back is because in his opinion maple cracks a bit more often than other woods. And a back doming is of course a good crack protection.
I'm working on a birdseye maple guitar. Today i showed it to an experienced luthier. He said the matter about doming a maple back is because in his opinion maple cracks a bit more often than other woods. And a back doming is of course a good crack protection.
Well cured maple is no more prone to cracking than any other wood. Perhaps you can explain how doming of the back is good crack protection. My understanding of the reason for doming is to add stiffness and eliminate parallel surfaces.
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