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RE: The advent of Spotify and the demise of ‘records’ as product [continuing on Ricardo’s comment]   You are logged in as Guest
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Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1588
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to estebanana

I'm currently reading Neil Young's autobiography (Waging Heavy Peace), and he gets really bitter and twisted about what the 'Net and streaming have done to music (although his focus is more on the physical quality of the recordings — but also the intellectual property aspects).

He writes well (there appears to be no co-author), and it's an interesting book — even if you’re not particularly a fan of Neil Young (which I’m not).

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2013 0:23:51
 
chester

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Sean

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean

quote:

As you can see - all professional musicians that are putting out their own product for the sake of making something new.


I can't see, because I would need to see their income tax return.
Being professional is not a skill level, it means you do it for a living as in your income.
If your friends make music purely for the sake of making music, art, or even something new they're what is known as amateurs, or dedicated hobbyists. There are many amateurs that are more skilled then their professional counterparts, so this as an insult.
Hobbyists should not tell professionals how to run their business, nor hold them up to their own artsy fartsy sense of idealism.

I guess you'll have to take my word for it that they make their money playing music. Like I said, this project is only one out of many. Writing music for commercials, tv shows, theater productions, being sidemen for more established artists, etc. You can check out the guitarist's work here - https://soundcloud.com/albalak1

My point is that you'd have to be crazy to think you're going to record an album and be able to make a living out of selling it. It's not because of spotify nor the general public - it's the nature of the business.

No artsy fartsy idealism - if I were to record an album and bank on the revenue, I wouldn't put it on spotify or pandora. If I wanted as many people as possible to enjoy my music - I would. Is it spotify's fault that record companies gave them streaming rights?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2013 0:51:49
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11128
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to chester

quote:

My point is that you'd have to be crazy to think you're going to record an album and be able to make a living out of selling it.


nobody in this thread ever said that. I have been trying to say making a recording costs money and there needs to be a return on the investment or it's like a little bankrupt situation. Pehaps you mean in the future musicians should produce recordings out of pocket or on grants only, stream it for pennies or nothing, in order only to promote themselves as performers? I am saying it will be at that point in time that recordings are no longer worth to make, except for as Mark said, only small percentage of professionals.

I have not been so bleek as implied earlier, I already said spotify issue was moot as their sneaky business has caught up with them financially (they need to pay themselves less plain and simple to cover cost of royalties etc), and also the advent of the "app" album sales could be the future of what will make it worth while to invest in making a recording after all. Wax cylinder->vinyl->cassette->CD->digital download->phone app->? could be the road. Free sharing for sure would be a dead end road with digital streaming.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2013 16:17:35
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Ricardo

my inlaws just provided me a timely article clipping from Forbes:

"The Most Important Man in Music - Daniel Ek, creator of Spotify".

Among many interesting details, the end of the article states Ek has "2 years left in his contract w/ the record labels to deliver enough cash flow to prevent them from demanding higher royalties. Thus far he has paid them $150million."

"With 2.5 million paying customers worldwide (85% pay the $10 a month for portable, and the rest pay $5 a month for ad-free), plus ad-revenue, Spotify is currently generating a run rate of around $300million. Using Pandora as a comp, that would make Spotify worth north of $2billion and Ek (age 28) at $300million.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2013 16:51:30
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to turnermoran

meanwhile, Pandora is getting slaughtered with the royalty rates they have to pay. 1/2 of their revenue goes to royalties.

it appears Spotify is not beholden to the same laws.. though I don't know the specifics, so that statement may be false
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2013 16:53:52
 
Munin

 

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

My point is that you'd have to be crazy to think you're going to record an album and be able to make a living out of selling it.


nobody in this thread ever said that. I have been trying to say making a recording costs money and there needs to be a return on the investment or it's like a little bankrupt situation. Pehaps you mean in the future musicians should produce recordings out of pocket or on grants only, stream it for pennies or nothing, in order only to promote themselves as performers? I am saying it will be at that point in time that recordings are no longer worth to make, except for as Mark said, only small percentage of professionals.

I have not been so bleek as implied earlier, I already said spotify issue was moot as their sneaky business has caught up with them financially (they need to pay themselves less plain and simple to cover cost of royalties etc), and also the advent of the "app" album sales could be the future of what will make it worth while to invest in making a recording after all. Wax cylinder->vinyl->cassette->CD->digital download->phone app->? could be the road. Free sharing for sure would be a dead end road with digital streaming.

Ricardo


Apps? That will never work out. Not after a decade of file-based convenience. I for one would hate to have to start a bloody app on my phone to listen to a single record, and then a different one for each album?!?! Nah.

No, it's clear what the model of the future is. The business side of it needs to mature, but the model is here to stay.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2013 17:02:59
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11128
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to turnermoran

quote:

ORIGINAL: turnermoran

meanwhile, Pandora is getting slaughtered with the royalty rates they have to pay. 1/2 of their revenue goes to royalties.

it appears Spotify is not beholden to the same laws.. though I don't know the specifics, so that statement may be false



it's not about "laws" it's about the agreed upon rates. Record companies pulling their material and renegotiating is what was going on. PULLING THE MATERIAL...that means he had it and was streaming it without them knowing until they saw the numbers (just like I did) and said "WHAT THE F>...K??????". As I said dozen times moot point...he raped musicians and they are trying to stop it hope his **** crashes but $300 million he made, lucky him.

quote:

Apps? That will never work out. Not after a decade of file-based convenience.


it's already "working" ... get with the times man stop living in the past.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2013 17:13:52
 
Munin

 

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

Record companies pulling their material and renegotiating is what was going on. PULLING THE MATERIAL...that means he had it and was streaming it without them knowing


You seriously still think that? If you want an example where this was actually true, check Grooveshark, which got hit with numerous copyright lawsuits because the uploaded music was illegally provided by users. I think they're about to close down, or have switched to legal licensing, not completely sure.

Spotify had deals in the place from the beginning, which is also why it wasn't available in the US and Germany for many years.

If anything, blame the record companies for agreeing to such deals - which they, by the way, don't limit to one particular company, but rather make wholesale agreements with multiple services, like Pandora, Simfy, etc., and there's actually a good number who refused to be on the service. Pulling your music AFTER making an agreement and realizing the numbers aren't worth it is one thing, but you keep insinuating that these companies actually exploit those poor unaware record companies by illegally streaming their music to millions. Which is wrong and that you keep making that argument, in defense of the record companies, is pretty disturbing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2013 17:24:11
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11128
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Munin

quote:

If anything, blame the record companies for agreeing to such deals


Holy moly flim flam I have been repeating till blue in the face...it was not the record companies intent to put the music out to get a royalty of 1 freakin cent. Maybe some big name allowed them to get away with that. BUt I am not on a record label. it was NOT CD BABY either it was someone such as ITUNES OR AMAZON....I only say that cuz those were the only two I allowed to sell my stuff yet there it is on spotify all nice and legal as agreed upon by SOMEONE not me, not a record company. Sheeeeeeesh.

Ok I am about done with this same old circle.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2013 17:53:08
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Munin

interesting points of view in an article on digital music:

http://stereogum.com/1204361/deconstructing-pandora-spotify-piracy-and-getting-artists-paid/top-stories/lead-story/

"... “The false expectation,” he writes, “that a handful of specific tech start-ups were going to make artists a living overnight seems deep-rooted and pervasive and I’m not sure why.”

Perhaps now we are getting somewhere. Where did these expectations come from?

In fact, stemming from those halcyon days of Napster, a strain of conventional wisdom took hold among New Media prophets that digital piracy wasn’t really a problem. The real problem was the lack of convenient, legitimate alternatives to piracy.
This line of thinking had a few consequences. 1. It offered consumers a rationalization for their own freeloading ways — they weren’t part of the problem, rather it was the record labels’ dragging their feet and foolishly fighting “the future.”

2. By implicitly portraying mass piracy as acceptable, the baseline value of music was set (and remains) at zero — this skewed the entire legitimate digital marketplace and still does.

3. This thinking communicated to artists to just be patient, because the solutions, in the form of better digital services, were indeed coming.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2013 16:58:47
 
JJ

 

Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 21 2011
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

Record companies, and some artists too, really should stop whining, it's has already been proven that piracy and (free) streaming websites barely harm the music industry, in fact they are most likely to benefit them.
A recent study for example:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/study-pirates-rejoice-illegal-downloading-doesnt-impact-digital-music-sales/
full study

I use spotify (premium) every day and it's a great source to discover new music and artists..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2013 18:11:50
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11128
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to JJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: JJ

Record companies, and some artists too, really should stop whining, it's has already been proven that piracy and (free) streaming websites barely harm the music industry, in fact they are most likely to benefit them.
A recent study for example:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/study-pirates-rejoice-illegal-downloading-doesnt-impact-digital-music-sales/
full study

I use spotify (premium) every day and it's a great source to discover new music and artists..



Sorry that is bunch of BS of a study. It says piracy don't hurt DIGTAL sales. I already pointed out the digital sales is **** money compared to hard copy and such, unless you have one hit song you produced yourself. Blaming the iphone as the reason anipiracy law actually worked? I agree spotify is a great source for CONSUMERS. I'm done with this old topic.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2013 18:45:06
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

just my 2 cents

spotify was somehow fair to artists when it applied restrictions on the number of times the track is allowed to be played, for example you can only listen to a track for 2 or 5 times and then you need to buy it, you are just not allowed to listen to it anymore

but now after spotify has introduced Spotify Web Player well its a great place for piracy ... its way too easy to cache the played music or even download them directly without paying a penny
which is not fair in my opinion

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http://www.youtube.com/user/GuitarristaAD
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2013 18:56:26
 
JJ

 

Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 21 2011
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Sorry that is bunch of BS of a study. It says piracy don't hurt DIGTAL sales. I already pointed out the digital sales is **** money compared to hard copy and such, unless you have one hit song you produced yourself. Blaming the iphone as the reason anipiracy law actually worked? I agree spotify is a great source for CONSUMERS. I'm done with this old topic.

No it's not. Digital is the 'future'. It's just like cassettes/tapes/vinyl where once before it got replaced by compact discs. Digital downloads are much cheaper, easier to distribute and more convenient. Thus reaches more people and sells more then hard copies every did. Same goes for the film industry, they keep complaining about piracy but fact is that ticket sales for cinemas keep increasing every year.

I also like many others rarely buy cds anymore, the are just inconvenient just like I barely use vinyl these days...

But I understand the frustrations of ricardo when his cd is still available on spotify against his will.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2013 19:03:35
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to JJ

i said it before...since everything is happening over the internet and since many people are buying up more internet than they usually would get for this reason, movies, music, youtube etc.....internet providers are the silent beneficiaries for everything else...you need to get the internet for that, they sell it to you with more and more data knowing full well why most will get it (noone gets unlimited internet to just send emails or write on forums)...they sell you tickets to a show they didn't create

there should be a share of the internet money going to those products used, or downloaded...as used ...and perhaps according to usage a cost relaid to the consumer who used this services i don't know...


I don't have a full plan ( and i dont think internet providers shouldn't be rewarded to what they are entitled to)...but if we ever hoped to get close to make it fair for everyone getting fair pay for their work and products as used should be looking in that direction IMO ...the gateway through which all of this is taking place is the internet......if anything can be done and monitored to reverse this it can only be done that way


the internet is like a third party selling you tickets to a supermarket and inside you can take anything you like for free...saying "you shouldn't do it its not enough" it hasent worked

hypothetically... if internet closed up tomorrow so would be the end of this situation does anyone not believe that ? i mean yeah there would still be the odd guy copying and sharing an album with his friends but not on this scale


weather they endorse illegal activity or not it is happening through they avenue...i think they should be at the head of those people trying to come up with a solution to help those negatively affected (if art means anything to our society anymore)...and they are the only party that CAN monitor and relay the costs to those using those services according to their usage

what is it 85% of everyone in the world has internet now ? Someone HAS benefited


Just my 2 cents...i dont have all the answers and i am wrecking my brain on how something like this could be reversed now cause living in a world without art would not be much fun...and all of it is affected, movies, music etc.. and everytime i end up at the same place Internet, internet providers would have to be involved


Saying its your choice to do art ...and dont blame the people ...ok fair enough...but eventually noone will do it if they starving ....is it going to take that ? we wouldn't be here chatting right now if it wasent for art..its a fragile thing...is it important enough to us to protect ?

they keep profiting and selling and inventing technology used for illegal use, or atleast making it easy...dvd recorders, cd ripper software, blank cd,s dvds, download software, unlimited fast internet, super large hardrives to hold 5000 movies...and everyone claims innocence ...eventually the bottom falls out and there will be nothing left to steal


technology has advanced at the cost of art

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2013 20:17:33
 
chester

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

It offered consumers a rationalization for their own freeloading ways — they weren’t part of the problem, rather it was the record labels’ dragging their feet and foolishly fighting “the future.”

Is anyone seriously expecting people to pay more than they have to? No one likes to spend money. Do you think your boss (or clients) wouldn't hesitate to pay you less if they could?

The fact is that these streaming services are legal, and definitely a better alternative to downloading/watching on youtube (where the artist gets no compensation).

Services like spotify and pandora came along to help solve the problem of copyright infringement, and they're operating within their legal boundaries. I think it's shortsighted to blame them for an artist's difficulty to make a living.

quote:

not on this scale

quote:

technology has advanced at the cost of art

Technology has indeed increased the scale of people who are able to listen to music. Taking it out of the concert halls and bringing into anyone's home (or pocket).
Is it a good thing? I believe it is. Are there downsides? Sure, but so does everything, doesn't it? You move out of your parents house and now you can stay up all night, but you also need to pay rent and do your own laundry.

Don't forget that the whole reason you're able to listen to quality flamenco in Australia is due to technology.

quote:

they keep profiting and selling and inventing technology used for illegal use, or atleast making it easy...dvd recorders, cd ripper software, blank cd,s dvds, download software, unlimited fast internet, super large hardrives to hold 5000 movies...and everyone claims innocence ...eventually the bottom falls out and there will be nothing left to steal

If you seriously think that fast internet and large harddrives are being developed because people want to have more music and movies, you need to step outside buy a newspaper and start reading the science section. There's much bigger stuff happening than some guy plucking string on a wood box and some other guy screaming about his terrible life.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2013 22:48:33
 
Mark2

Posts: 1472
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

LOL, and I thought I was a cynic. What a great description of flamenco.....


quote:

There's much bigger stuff happening than some guy plucking string on a wood box and some other guy screaming about his terrible life.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2013 23:41:09
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Mark2

quote:

If you seriously think that fast internet and large harddrives are being developed because people want to have more music and movies, you need to step outside buy a newspaper and start reading the science section. There's much bigger stuff happening than some guy plucking string on a wood box and some other guy screaming about his terrible life.


I am sure there are other things going but what else is happening ? what scientific project is the rest of the world who read the science section in the news paper everyday downloading ??


what are the enlightened people downloading this days ? and when did the rest of the world become so enlightened and left me behind to just watch movies and listen to music

btw, you are talking about flamenco I am talking about arts in general (all genres and movies etc)...and i dont know why you do this if this is your view of what flamenco is

what is the average household with a 15 year old and unlimited internet downloading 3 terabites newspapers or science projects ?

you should have a look at a torrent site to see the kind of mass numbers we talking about here on movies and albums downloads and tell me thats not affecting the industries concerned


anyway i cant keep arguing now, i got a student reading this over my shoulder....she might think i am unprofessional

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2013 23:46:29
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1239
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to chester

quote:

ORIGINAL: chester


The fact is that these streaming services are legal, and definitely a better alternative to downloading/watching on youtube (where the artist gets no compensation).



this is actually true.. a lesser of 2 evil if you must.
if I was a recording atist, between being downloaded illegally (which is SO simple these days with cds being about 100mb).
Spotify would be a better option.
I'd rather not be shot with a gun at all, but if I HAD to choose, I rather my leg than my head.
Spotify reward greatly artists with a high fan base, smaller fan based genres like flamenco would have less returns for the artists. I hope the rewards would be greater but I don't control how much spotify pays the record companies.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2013 23:54:25
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11128
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to HolyEvil

quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

quote:

ORIGINAL: chester


The fact is that these streaming services are legal, and definitely a better alternative to downloading/watching on youtube (where the artist gets no compensation).



this is actually true.. a lesser of 2 evil if you must.
if I was a recording atist, between being downloaded illegally (which is SO simple these days with cds being about 100mb).
Spotify would be a better option.
I'd rather not be shot with a gun at all, but if I HAD to choose, I rather my leg than my head.
Spotify reward greatly artists with a high fan base, smaller fan based genres like flamenco would have less returns for the artists. I hope the rewards would be greater but I don't control how much spotify pays the record companies.



I wished you guys would read through the thread closer. At first spotify WAS like a pirate paying small taxes to the artist they were robbing, until it caught up with them, and now they realize paying what they really were supposed to be paying all along, its hardly worth it. I wish we could just move along now and stop trying to defend "fast cheap and easy is the future" as if it is right, when it clearly is not. All anyone was saying in this topic about about spotify was YES it's better than digital download piracy, so long as they pay what they are supposed to, and now they have to but WERE NOT in the past. The end.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2013 14:12:37
 
Xavi

 

Posts: 68
Joined: Jul. 10 2012
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

For **** & giggles (sorry about length) - some Then/Nows about the music biz, cobled together courtesy of Lefsetz's recent column (lefsetz.com):

THEN

If you had a tiny core audience, you were financially challenged.

NOW

If you have a tiny core audience, you can raise enough money to make your album on Kickstarter, and own the copyright to boot. Just don’t think since you raised all that cash anybody other than the core is going to be interested in what you produce.

THEN

Albums all cost the same price.

NOW

Hard core fans will pay for special packages, delivered most famously by Topspin. If you’re not tapping the deep pockets of your hard core fans, you’re leaving money on the table.

THEN

You put out one album every three years, it took that long to reach every potential audience member.

NOW

You release music constantly, to satiate the core, no one beyond it cares. In the old days, your favorite act released an album when you were in high school and when the next one came out you were married and had babies. Now, if an act waits until the summer to follow up their fall release, it’s too long.

THEN

Music was scarce, so when we bought albums we played them.

NOW

Music is plentiful. Only the hard core wants to go beyond the hits. Are you playing to the core or to the masses who don’t care?

THEN

Marketing was top-down. You spent a lot of money and convinced everybody they should pay attention. I.e. Mariah Carey.

NOW

Marketing is from the ground up and Tommy Mottola is out of work and Mariah Carey is on a TV show that no one talks about anymore.

THEN

It was about the music.

NOW

It’s about the marketing. Just because you know how to use Final Cut Pro and can create an interesting visual, that does not mean anybody wants to listen to your music.

THEN

You could live off the money from your record deal.

NOW

If you even have a deal, compensation is low, you’re dependent on the promoter to keep you alive.

THEN

The most powerful person in the music business was the head of the label.

NOW

The most powerful person in the music business is the promoter. Lucian Grainge gets all the ink, but Michael Rapino has all the money. And he with the money triumphs. Universal folds and people still make music. Promoters go under and artists starve.

THEN

Music was expensive and everybody had little of it.

NOW

Music is cheap and everybody has more than they want.

THEN

People wanted your free music.

NOW

People don’t want your free music, hell, they’ve got the music of superstars free on their computer!

THEN

Facebook was cool.

NOW

Facebook isn’t cool. If bands can fade, why can’t websites?

THEN

You spent hours downloading music from P2P services.

NOW

You just watch what you want on YouTube. Just like the deficit, piracy in music is a red herring. It’s just too much effort. The reason you can’t sell your music in prodigious amounts is it’s just not good enough, not enough people care. When we had limited options and unlimited time we were interested in your substandard work, now with unlimited options and little time we are only interested in the very best.

THEN

The man wasn’t to be trusted.

NOW

Where do I sell out?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2013 20:03:26
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

lol thats funny and some sadly true lines

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Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2013 20:50:51
 
chester

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Florian

quote:

i dont know why you do this if this is your view of what flamenco is

Just putting it in perspective, doesn't mean it's not great. After a long day of practicing I feel good, but still can't help think that I spent all that time moving fingers.

quote:

I am sure there are other things going but what else is happening ? what scientific project

Stuff like the human genome project, nanoparticle research, alternative energy sources, etc. (not that I read the science section, just live right next to a science museum).

quote:

you should have a look at a torrent site to see the kind of mass numbers we talking about here on movies and albums downloads and tell me thats not affecting the industries concerned

I'm not saying it's not affecting, or that it's alright, just that it's not necessarily the reason faster processors and larger hard drives are being developed.

quote:

anyway i cant keep arguing now, i got a student reading this over my shoulder....she might think i am unprofessional

Come on man, you know that's the secret of your charm.
Anyway now that the lesson's over, let's continue this argument.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2013 21:02:32
 
chester

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
I wished you guys would read through the thread closer. At first spotify WAS like a pirate paying small taxes to the artist they were robbing, until it caught up with them, and now they realize paying what they really were supposed to be paying all along, its hardly worth it. I wish we could just move along now and stop trying to defend "fast cheap and easy is the future" as if it is right, when it clearly is not. All anyone was saying in this topic about about spotify was YES it's better than digital download piracy, so long as they pay what they are supposed to, and now they have to but WERE NOT in the past. The end.

Dude I thought you're done with this topic.

A couple of points -
quote:

At first spotify WAS like a pirate paying small taxes to the artist they were robbing

Pirates don't pay anything, that's the thing with being a pirate.
quote:

now they realize paying what they really were supposed to be paying all along, its hardly worth it.

I'm not an expert on spotify's history, but I'm pretty sure they were paying all along.

quote:

I wish we could just move along now and stop trying to defend "fast cheap and easy is the future" as if it is right, when it clearly is not.

Not saying right or wrong, just that it is the future and artists have no choice but to adapt. I already gave the example of recordings and how suddenly people can just put on a CD instead of hiring a band. It closed doors but opened others.

I'd like to use John Walsh as an example. He puts in (a ****load of) time and effort into his technique, compositions, and video production and posts on youtube for people to enjoy for free. As long as people like that exist (and I believe they always will) there's no danger of 'no more music'. Maybe budgets for albums will go down, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Riqueni's "Flamenco" was recorded in three days, a lot of great Jazz albums are comprised of one-takes, etc... How many times have we heard - "so-and-so's new album is over-produced. I wish it was just one guitar"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xavi
......

Funny, sad, and true. It's tough being a musician.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2013 21:53:09
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7518
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

This thread makes me want to drink heavily.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2013 22:38:44
 
Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

In the time of Bach and Mozart , they were a part of a community , their music was accepted and appreciated by their community . I believe that hard work , dedication and passion are always rewarded . To seek financial reward from music .I believe you need to ask yourself, how does my music fit into my " Community " . Also how does my music make the world a better place . Think localy act globaly .

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2013 9:04:42
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11128
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to chester

quote:

I'm not an expert on spotify's history, but I'm pretty sure they were paying all along.


Well, imagine some guys walked in your house un announced, took all your furniture and left some coins for each item for your troubles. What happened is after discovered, these good natured guys were just letting other folks try out your furniture to see if they liked and didn't think you'd mind since they paid for it after all. Other smarter folks caught on to the game and said ok guys, you can borrow the desk and computer for a couple hundred bucks until I want it back, but dont touch my tv and couches and chairs!!!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2013 17:31:51
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Ricardo

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/aug/17/major-labels-spotify
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2013 11:30:40
 
Munin

 

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: The advent of Spotify and the de... (in reply to Blondie#2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blondie#2

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/aug/17/major-labels-spotify


Hey, don't let reality get in the way of the crusade against evil streaming services. Clearly labels are completely innocent. Spotify is directly and illegally exploiting artists with no middle man (read: label) agreeing to it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2013 12:24:53
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