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RE: Your musical interest apart from Flamenco?
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
Here's an article about Iris Caldwell, who sort of inspired "I saw her standing there" by the Beatles.
Not bad, Miguel, but she has not aged as well as Heloisa Eneida Menezes Pais Pinto, the girl who inspired "The Girl From Ipanema," as she walked by the beach front "Veloso Bar" every day while Antonio Carlos Jobim and Vinicius de Moraes were drinking inside.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Mar. 2 2013 20:32:18
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runner
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
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RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c)
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"Hip-hop is not music, in my estimation. (If music resolves.) Hip-hop does not progress, it revolves, replicates, sticks to the floor. It is not approximate emotion. It is approximate obsession. The "voice", the bard, the oracle, the messenger, the minister of propaganda intricately, saucily rhymes, chugs, foreshortens, sneers, insinuates, retreats. The voice betrays no emotion; has none; this is not rage, but cleverness. Too wise. Too sly. A dictatorship of rhyme. There is a message; the message is masonic; the conveyance too dense; deep as a trance. The voice is preoccupied and always in the present. It is the voice of schizophrenia. It is bad advice. It is the voice of battle--Beowulf, Edda, the madder psalms--the voice justifies endlessly. What is going to happen if you don't stop this! On and on and on. Slamming the table. It is the post-lude to music. Long after emotion has been flung from the bone, the beat remains. The beat plows through the rubble of music, turning under the broken arches of melody, stabbing about for rhyming shards--raising them, rubbing them together rhythmically--trying to ignite."
Thus sayeth Richard Rodriguez, in Brown, 2002. Good book.
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Date Mar. 2 2013 23:39:51
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Sr. Martins
Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
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RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to runner)
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quote:
"Hip-hop is not music, in my estimation. (If music resolves.) Hip-hop does not progress, it revolves, replicates, sticks to the floor. It is not approximate emotion. It is approximate obsession. The "voice", the bard, the oracle, the messenger, the minister of propaganda intricately, saucily rhymes, chugs, foreshortens, sneers, insinuates, retreats. The voice betrays no emotion; has none; this is not rage, but cleverness. Too wise. Too sly. A dictatorship of rhyme. There is a message; the message is masonic; the conveyance too dense; deep as a trance. The voice is preoccupied and always in the present. It is the voice of schizophrenia. It is bad advice. It is the voice of battle--Beowulf, Edda, the madder psalms--the voice justifies endlessly. What is going to happen if you don't stop this! On and on and on. Slamming the table. It is the post-lude to music. Long after emotion has been flung from the bone, the beat remains. The beat plows through the rubble of music, turning under the broken arches of melody, stabbing about for rhyming shards--raising them, rubbing them together rhythmically--trying to ignite."
Those are great lyrics for a rap song, you just have to insert a line break everytime there's ponctuation on that text 
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Date Mar. 3 2013 0:38:55
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kudo
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
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RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
First you say no to the idea stated; that flamenco attracts people from many other genres of music
yes, i say no-because i didnt have a genre. i although i was forced to play classical music as a kid, i never liked it ..
quote:
you say you never liked music before flamenco.
yes, I would not listen to anything
quote:
So you're saying you are not interested in other music,
yes, I might kind of like something in other music, but doesnt mean im interested in that genre
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yet you imply that you know that people from other genres don't like flamenco.
never mentioned anything about people..dont know where you are getting that from, which makes me think that you are the master enigma wrapped in bacon, then deep fried in discombobulated silliness.
quote:
Then in the same line of mis-punctuated text, as I would not call it an actual proper sentence
whatisthissupposedtobe?anessaywithgrammarandpunctuationchecks?idontcare,imabadwriter
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Date Mar. 3 2013 4:08:40
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runner
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
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RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Sr. Martins)
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Perhaps Hip-hop is bested regarded as chanted diatribe, in the form of "poetry". But it can be considered music, sensu lato, if Milton Babbitt's serialism, or maybe aleatoric or "chance", music, is considered music. Maybe flatulence is music. All a matter of definition. Being somewhat of a traditionalist, though, I prefer at least a suggestion of the presence of all three of our old friends Melody, Harmony, and Rhythm. I often settle for two out of three.
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Date Mar. 3 2013 18:03:16
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to runner)
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quote:
But it can be considered music, sensu lato, if Milton Babbitt's serialism, or maybe aleatoric or "chance", music, is considered music. Maybe flatulence is music. All a matter of definition.
Interesting you mention Milton Babbitt in relating to Rap/Hip hop. I often hear rappers and hip hoppers being interviewed talking about how they pioneered the ideas they call 'sampling', it always makes be guffaw loudly at the claim. It was exactly composers like Milton Babbitt who first started working on scores that were comprised of pre recorded and manipulated music or sounds. Namely, Musique Concrete was the French movement just post WWII into the 1950's that was based in sound sampling techniques. There are even older examples of manipulation of recorded sounds.
One of the definitions of music is that it is a duration of time marked out in some way and in that time a structure of sounds happen with alternating silences and soundings. Kind of a loose definition, but that makes a lot of things music, but all music is not musical even if it is definably music.
This definition makes the definition of music work for and against you. You can call something music which many others will not like, and vice versa.
So when Cage wrote the famous piece called 4'33" he was essentially bracketing time and saying within this formal time duration what ever happens is music. It served to make the listener accept or deny the definition of music I mentioned above, but it also served to allow one, or prompt one to hear music in everything. Besides being a clever idea, 4'33" is listening experience where you make the music by putting the sounds around you into a context. After you accept that the world sounds different forever after. Of course many composers throughout the history of music had reached that state without Cage's prompts, but the public was not ready for the musics is inspired and basically still are not.
When you listen to Miles Davis' album 'In a Silent Way' you can hear the influence of Cage or Musique Concrete and the aleatoric ideas that were in the air. A lot of the music on that album is basically a soundscape or sound poem created to give an impression of New York City at night as you would hear it sitting in your window over the street. Miles music was heard as much hipper than Milton Babbit's and more generally understood than Cages, but there are connections.
I wish I knew much more about music, it is fascinating stuff.
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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Mar. 3 2013 21:59:45
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runner
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
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RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to estebanana)
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Banana, you certainly would appreciate the Leonard Meyer book, Music, the Arts, and Ideas, that I put forward in a previous post--Meyer digs into many of the issues that intrigue people about what music is and how it works and some more besides (the future of all of the arts). It may be, though, that the human nervous system is hard-wired to not accept as "music"-- meaning I want to hear a lot more of this sound/noise--serialism, or aleatoric music, or a lot of what passed as the coming thing in music. When Babbitt was awarded a special Pulitzer for his efforts in "modern" music, I wrote a Letter to the Editor, pointing out that nobody ever wanted to come to even free concerts of modern music. This while Babbitt and his tiny Band of Brothers alternated between complaining about the lack of funds to put on such concerts (nobody was interested), and saying sourly that "modern" composers ought to forget a larger public and write their stuff--if that's the term--only for each other. It is becoming clearer that serialism, and aleatoric, and other where's the melody? musics were really just dead ends, and will live only as a footnote in any history of future music.
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Date Mar. 4 2013 12:12:31
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