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RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared   You are logged in as Guest
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estebanana

Posts: 7961
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

So if Jimmy Page plays it, it's okay? :)


Yes, but if Gene Simmons tried it would piss me off.

I'm not the police, I don't care who plays it. It is not my intent to judge or deter someone from playing or hearing music they love. I'm just pointing out that music imprints on all of us in different ways, especially in our primary contact with certain styles or works, and much of the time we can't help how we react.

I wonder how many people if they are honest and would talk about it have had similar reactions to certain music or recordings.

I was amused later that the Barrueco made me angry. Rather like watching yourself do something you think you would not do. I mean how often do you have that kind of reaction to classical music? Bach certainly is not controversial in the way The Rite of Spring was when it premiered and drew anger from the audience. ( one of my favorite works) I saw it more as a positive thing than a bad thing. I'm ****ing alive! And I'll say I have heard Barrueco play on other recordings and liked it very much.

Perhaps in someway Barrueco would like it that it was so emotional and not just blah blah blah. I also have the Paul Galbraith recordings of the Partitas and Sonatas and they seriously put me to sleep. I can't stand his tempos, but his phrases and paced thoughtfulness are wonderful. When I saw him play some of them in person, I did not feel the same way about his as I did on the recordings. I liked his in person performance of them much, much better.

I think in classical guitar and classical music in general today, since the late 1980's, that perfection has been chosen over performance on recordings. Editorial tweeks of notes and the overall sound envelope is more restrained and mannered. I think the ability of digital editing to easily swap out notes or phrases from several takes to create a perfected sonic collage has been the downfall of some recordings. It's kind of musical homogenization.

Interesting as a side note if you will, the first time a recording producer swapped out bad note on a recording was on an operatic project. It happened in 1952 when Elizabeth Schwartzkopf sang one high C which was edited into a recording of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde that was being sung by Kirsten Flagstad. Flagstd missed the high C during the recording session and later during production Schwartzkopf was called in to sing that one note into place.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 4 2013 23:59:20
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12573
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Perhaps in someway Barrueco would like it that it was so emotional and not just blah blah blah.


I thought it very cool he made "nylon and steel", very eclectic tastes for a classical musician and he was very humble about the project. But in the end, you hear the guy playing with Al dimeola and it was so stiff and awkward, like a student struggling to read and keep ensemble. I mean compared to PDL of course, but still we are talking very high level professional artist here, it's embarrassing. He admitted Al's music was rhythmically challenging....but I hear all the time the guy being praised for his rhythmic interpretations of classical music such as bach...Really???

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 5 2013 0:29:30
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3524
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to estebanana

Stephen, I see nothing strange in imprinting. How often among flamenco aficionados, do we see "era-inflexibility"? I really don't get into too much post-Almoraima flamenco, it just doesn't hit me that hard. As far as the Rite of Spring, it is somewhat understandable. That music goes with dinosaurs a lot better than tuxedos and opera glasses. Anyway, I thought the ruckus was a publicity stunt?

Barrueco brings an "aristocratic" elegance to his recordings, but it is rather austere and not particularly personal. I would rather hear Bream any of the day of the week--although I don't know if Bream ever messed with the Cello Suites. I like Casals for my Bach. I will be following up on your vids, though. I intend to learn the 3rd suite on the guitar one of these days. We'll see if I have enough guts to post it here! :)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 5 2013 15:26:36
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3524
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to Ricardo

I had not heard his rhythmic sense being particularly developed. Although, being from Cuba, one would think...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 5 2013 15:28:17
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1701
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

But in the end, you hear the guy playing with Al dimeola and it was so stiff and awkward, like a student struggling to read and keep ensemble.


Not really surprising; if you don’t develop a Jazz vocabulary when you’re young, you never develop it. Have you heard John Williams trying to play Jazz? And this despite the fact that his father was a Jazz guitarist.

I remember seeing Julian Bream playing with Grappelli one, as well: that was hilarious. Bream played his carefully-rehearsed break, and then Grappelli, with a huge grin, said “Play it again, Julian”. Bream was sweating bullets.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 5 2013 16:01:52
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2992
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to Paul Magnussen

Bream playing and talking about jazz:



RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 5 2013 17:00:48
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12573
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

Bream playing and talking about jazz:



RNJ



That was the BEST thing I ever heard from bream. Totally different guy, even it was simple music he projected well right there. He should have stuck with that stuff and done aguado and aranjuez for fun, cuz those tough tunes were NOT convincing and actually painful to watch.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2013 1:44:27
 
Miguel de Maria

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Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to Ricardo

You are........... joking, right?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2013 4:46:13
 
trendkiller

 

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 31 2013 9:24:22
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2013 9:23:19
 
trendkiller

 

Posts: 6
Joined: Mar. 17 2013
 

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to estebanana

I did a quick recording with my phone of the first prelude a couple of days ago. Didn't want to start a thread so I hope you don't mind that I'm sharing it here.

Here's the link.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2013 9:25:50
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1756
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to trendkiller

quote:

ORIGINAL: trendkiller

I did a quick recording with my phone of the first prelude a couple of days ago.



Your morning looks reminded me to this wonderful documentary starring David Fray

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2013 13:59:42
 
estebanana

Posts: 7961
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to estebanana

He plays wonderfully. He had a very specific idea of how he wanted the accompaniment to work with his playing. I laughed when that one violinist who pulled a face when he said more sensual.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 1 2013 22:27:53
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1756
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I laughed when that one violinist who pulled a face when he said more sensual.


I liked that moment very much as well :-)

I enjoyed a similar moment quite recently when i watched the trailer of the dutch version of golden oldies, were a group of elderly people who agreed to join a choir project meets the inspirators for the first time...and the music involved. Highlight is the non verbal communication at 0:45

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2013 12:16:01
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12573
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to estebanana

Damn...turns out he didn't even write the cello suites. But it makes me wonder, who the heck was watching their 20 kids with all that music writing going on? Or rather, no wonder they lost a couple.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/classicalmusic/11188153/Did-Bachs-wife-write-his-finest-works.html

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 29 2014 2:35:13
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3524
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to Ricardo

"While Anna is known to have transcribed for Bach in his later years, researchers found the handwriting did not have the “slowness or heaviness” usually attributed to someone who is merely copying, but was likely to have flowed from her own mind."

That's pretty impressive evidence--that her handwriting didn't have the "slowness" of a transcriber.

"Heidi Harralson, a forensic document examiner, said she was convinced the composer was more likely to be Anna than Bach himself, saying she was as sure as possible “within a reasonable degree of scientific certainty”."

There is a science of figuring out who has composed a set of music? What are the qualifications to practice this science, and how does it compare to the generations of musicians who have studied the music and never noticed anything amiss?

The article doesn't convince (maybe the evidence on which it is based does...kind of doubt it)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 29 2014 14:17:13
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12573
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to Miguel de Maria

Maybe THIS will convince you!



That is sarcasm...these guys sound like they chase chemtrails and aliens etc.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 29 2014 15:36:30
 
Miguel de Maria

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Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to Ricardo

I like how the qualifications of one of the main speakers is "Tenor".

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 29 2014 16:09:16
 
estebanana

Posts: 7961
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (in reply to estebanana

This idea has been kicking around and dying a slow death. An Australian musicologist made this argument, but it has been pretty well shot down. But it still gets press.

Analyze the 5th and 6th suites, very complex. The Australian based a lot of his claims by saying this music is not Bach because is it too simplistic. Yeah right.

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This is more on point:

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 30 2014 22:59:22
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