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estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to VICTOR1

Still waiting...

It's like listening to a car skidding out of control while you anticipate the crash.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 18:24:28
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
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RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to Ramon Amira

quote:

His views and insights into guitar construction are of great interest to any flamenco guitarist, and the luthiers on this forum would eat it up.

Ramo


Of course, but when the name M____R__is mentioned the eventual outcome is almost always the same.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 18:28:44
 
aarongreen

 

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to estebanana

quote:


quote:

His views and insights into guitar construction are of great interest to any flamenco guitarist, and the luthiers on this forum would eat it up.

Ramo


Of course, but when the name M____R__is mentioned the eventual outcome is almost always the same.



Ok I'll bite.

Mr. Rodgers was a great children's advocate and entertainer but he couldn't build his way out of a paper bag.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 18:37:23
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to estebanana

wait for it....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 18:49:28
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13399
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I also have a premonitory vision about this thread......wait for it, it is coming.....

wait for it,

wait for it,

wait.......



THe book interview was so interesting. But I was wondering if anyone knows of a Plan to build an actual MANUEL REYES guitar, and if anyone has ever tried to build one and what might be some good techniques for sanding braces ETC.. ANYBODY??

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 19:11:10
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to estebanana

Geezus Ricki, milk the fun out of life....we were all happy to wait

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 19:13:16
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13399
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to Ricardo

I can't wait.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 19:20:20
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to Ramon Amira

quote:

But the interview with Manuel Reyes is a most extraordinary interview, in which Reyes, far from being a simple artisan, proves to be exceptionally erudite and articulate, a cross between a philosopher and a poet.

To give just one example – when asked “What qualities must a great guitarrero possess,” his answer is not something about wood, etc. His answer is “Morality. Integrity. Realism. Humility. Clear Vision. Imagination.”


Isn´t this just something universal? The way we should all be. The goal for all of us? Being luthiers, bankiers, politicians, fishermen, preachers, whatever?

The only thing exceptionally erudite etc that I see in this is that very few people act this way and that its exactly one of the biggest problems of mankind.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 20:04:57
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Land of Daniel Boone

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to estebanana

mr. salt?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 21:25:15
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to estebanana

quote:




quote:

His views and insights into guitar construction are of great interest to any flamenco guitarist, and the luthiers on this forum would eat it up.

Ramon

Of course, but when the name M____R__is mentioned the eventual outcome is almost always the same.





Do you mean Miguel Rodriguez?

Ramon
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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 22:35:52
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

THe book interview was so interesting. But I was wondering if anyone knows of a Plan to build an actual MANUEL REYES guitar, and if anyone has ever tried to build one and what might be some good techniques for sanding braces ETC.. ANYBODY??



I'm not sure what you mean by a "Manuel Reyes guitar." Do you mean a Manuel Reyes copy? If so, several luthiers are building them. Tom Blackshear made and distributed a Plan for a Reyes blanca copy. He made them himself, and Francisco Navarro is making a great copy - headstock and all. Some other luthiers also.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 22:40:15
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

quote:

But the interview with Manuel Reyes is a most extraordinary interview, in which Reyes, far from being a simple artisan, proves to be exceptionally erudite and articulate, a cross between a philosopher and a poet.

To give just one example – when asked “What qualities must a great guitarrero possess,” his answer is not something about wood, etc. His answer is “Morality. Integrity. Realism. Humility. Clear Vision. Imagination.”


Isn´t this just something universal? The way we should all be. The goal for all of us? Being luthiers, bankiers, politicians, fishermen, preachers, whatever?

The only thing exceptionally erudite etc that I see in this is that very few people act this way and that its exactly one of the biggest problems of mankind.



Yes, that's the way we should all be. But the point I was making was that if you ask a luthier what qualities a great luthier must have, you would expect an answer something like "a good feel for wood," or something else to do with the various aspects of construction. You would not expect the answer he gave.

As for his being erudite and articulate - read the interview.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 22:46:44
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to Ramon Amira

quote:

I'm not sure what you mean by a "Manuel Reyes guitar." Do you mean a Manuel Reyes copy? If so, several luthiers are building them. Tom Blackshear made and distributed a Plan for a Reyes Blanca copy. He made them himself, and Francisco Navarro is making a great copy - headstock and all. Some other luthiers also.

Ramon


Ramon,

Thanks for the plug but I didn't distribute the plan, I donated the plan to the GAL, free of charge, and they distribute it. And I now make a fairly modified version of Reyes which you could consider not an original copy of his construction at all.

My original thinking was to bring the Reyes name to a wider audience and honor his contribution to the world. This may have done a little good, however he is now retired and his son is having to fill many years of orders that his father created.

But I'm sure some enterprising factory will get the idea to build one of his creations...as they are popular with flamenco players world wide, and people just like to play them. And I wouldn't put it past Manuel's son to get a Spanish factory do a copy of his work, to help him get past his long wait list.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 23:28:18
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1918
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to Tom Blackshear

quote:

And I wouldn't put it past Manuel's son to get a Spanish factory do a copy of his work, to help him get past his long wait list.


I wouldn't put anything past Manuel´s son, but why don´t you build a Gerundino copy and donate the plans?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 23:43:04
 
aarongreen

 

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to Ramon Amira

quote:


Prominent Critic   | RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 

quote:

quote:

But the interview with Manuel Reyes is a most extraordinary interview, in which Reyes, far from being a simple artisan, proves to be exceptionally erudite and articulate, a cross between a philosopher and a poet.

To give just one example – when asked “What qualities must a great guitarrero possess,” his answer is not something about wood, etc. His answer is “Morality. Integrity. Realism. Humility. Clear Vision. Imagination.”


Isn´t this just something universal? The way we should all be. The goal for all of us? Being luthiers, bankiers, politicians, fishermen, preachers, whatever?

The only thing exceptionally erudite etc that I see in this is that very few people act this way and that its exactly one of the biggest problems of mankind.



Yes, that's the way we should all be. But the point I was making was that if you ask a luthier what qualities a great luthier must have, you would expect an answer something like "a good feel for wood," or something else to do with the various aspects of construction. You would not expect the answer he gave.

As for his being erudite and articulate - read the interview.

Ramon


Actually I'd expect an answer like that if the person answering the question has depth. The question is what the luthier must have. The qualities he listed give rise to all things such as a good feel for the wood or whatever minutia that is part of the endeavor a person embarks on. Those are things he listed, you either have or don't, the rest can be learned. It's a very good answer and very much points to the artistic nature of Reyes, who is definitely more than just another craftsman.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2013 23:53:39
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to Morante

quote:

I wouldn't put anything past Manuel´s son, but why don´t you build a Gerundino copy and donate the plans?


Are you saying that Hijo is unscrupulous? If so, could you share witrh us your reasons for saying so, and your first hand knowledge of such.

Ramon

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 3:01:19
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to aarongreen

quote:


quote:


Prominent Critic   | RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 

quote:

quote:

But the interview with Manuel Reyes is a most extraordinary interview, in which Reyes, far from being a simple artisan, proves to be exceptionally erudite and articulate, a cross between a philosopher and a poet.

To give just one example – when asked “What qualities must a great guitarrero possess,” his answer is not something about wood, etc. His answer is “Morality. Integrity. Realism. Humility. Clear Vision. Imagination.”


Isn´t this just something universal? The way we should all be. The goal for all of us? Being luthiers, bankiers, politicians, fishermen, preachers, whatever?

The only thing exceptionally erudite etc that I see in this is that very few people act this way and that its exactly one of the biggest problems of mankind.



Yes, that's the way we should all be. But the point I was making was that if you ask a luthier what qualities a great luthier must have, you would expect an answer something like "a good feel for wood," or something else to do with the various aspects of construction. You would not expect the answer he gave.

As for his being erudite and articulate - read the interview.

Ramon


Actually I'd expect an answer like that if the person answering the question has depth. The question is what the luthier must have. The qualities he listed give rise to all things such as a good feel for the wood or whatever minutia that is part of the endeavor a person embarks on. Those are things he listed, you either have or don't, the rest can be learned. It's a very good answer and very much points to the artistic nature of Reyes, who is definitely more than just another craftsman.


I think that very few good luthiers are just another craftsman. Building instruments is not about craft only. Its not enough to just build a box with a stick and some strings following whatever plan. There are so many other things you have to learn. Some can be taught if you have a very long and very close connection to a luthier which is more than just a craftsman, but the rest you have to find out yourself.

The Luthier mostly work alone. Day after day and extremely important part of being a good luthier is to accept and funcion under loneliness. Accept, that you are just you and that you have to find your way of managing everything.

After years of being alone for many hours a day, maybe just with the radio as a collegue, most of us devellop a kind of filosofical nature, maybe even poetic or artistic. Some are better to put words on that than others, which is exactly what poetry is about, but most of the good luthiers I´ve met, have their own very personal vision of everything. Some just keep it to themselves so they might look more ordinaty than others when they are being presented in books, interviews etc.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 8:00:57
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to Morante

quote:

but why don´t you build a Gerundino copy and donate the plans?


I can do that if you want. I´ll donate the plans and later on I can use that fact to promote myself endlessly just like others do.

But you might have to donate your Gerundino to me. At least for a while.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 8:03:26
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3223
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

Original: Anders Eliasson

The Luthier mostly work alone. Day after day and extremely important part of being a good luthier is to accept and funcion under loneliness. Accept, that you are just you and that you have to find your way of managing everything.



In a conversation (in Spanish) in June of 1991 with Vicente Camacho in his shop in Madrid, he told me of his maestro, Modesto Borreguero, one of the three great oficiales of Manuel Ramirez, along with Santos Hernandez and Domingo Esteso.

I asked, "Maestro, do you have any disciples of your own?"

"Pues no," he replied. "Trabajo aqui solo, como San Jose. [No, I work here alone, like Saint Joseph ( the earthly father of Jesus)]"

He seemed a little wistful, but not dissatisfied with his situation.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 8:36:37
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to Morante

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

quote:

And I wouldn't put it past Manuel's son to get a Spanish factory do a copy of his work, to help him get past his long wait list.


I wouldn't put anything past Manuel´s son, but why don´t you build a Gerundino copy and donate the plans?


I have a partial plan of a 1969 Gerundino that Paco del Gastor used to own, which he sold to a friend of mine years ago, and I built a few copies of it.

One went to Dan Zeff and he sold it to Johnny Matthis's studio guitarist who also bought a Conde. The plan is not like the current style but more like the Ramirez plantilla with the Gerundino fan brace design inside.

And I was not insulting Manuel's son but to say that a significant number of high end guitar companies are now having these factories subcontract guitars for them, even some of their high end guitars.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 13:28:11
 
Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to estebanana

quote:


And I was not insulting Manuel's son


Could have fooled me That was an insult of epic Conde like proportions.

Reyes has an estudio line already and has for some time, no clue who makes them but credit for labelling them properly.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 19:18:24
 
Tom Blackshear

 

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RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to Sean

quote:


Could have fooled me That was an insult of epic Conde like proportions.


Seriously, I was not trying to insult him, taking into consideration that some of the other high end guitar companies have their top of the line guitars made by a sub-contractor.

I'm thinking about having this done for my order of a special designed model made in Spain, with the addition of my personal fine tuning. And my label would definitely reflect it accordingly.

This is not a new trend for Spanish sub-contractors, who build for Spanish companies, and it should be open and available to other builders outside Spain..

I'll let you know how this progresses.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 19:42:53
 
Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to estebanana

Why bother with Spain, China is a country full of dedicated copyists. A little rice and cabbage, those 12yr olds will put in a solid 18 hour day without complaint. If you get bored driving around in your Ferrari, you can even make a few yourself; guitars I mean not Chinese children.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 20:12:01
 
Don Dionisio

 

Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Stephen and Anders,
I don't have any problems with you or anyone else on the forum. However, I am tired
Of reading your negativity towards Tom Blackshear. I think the moderators should put an end to this.
I am asking you to please stop it.
Thank you.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 21:27:56
 
Escribano

Posts: 6326
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to Don Dionisio

The moderator ends up locking these threads, over and over. He is also very tired of it. Thank you.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 21:32:00
 
Tom Blackshear

 

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RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to Sean

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean

Why bother with Spain, China is a country full of dedicated copyists. A little rice and cabbage, those 12yr olds will put in a solid 18 hour day without complaint. If you get bored driving around in your Ferrari, you can even make a few yourself; guitars I mean not Chinese children.


I don't have a connection to China except I take Tai Chi lessons with a born teacher from there :-)

And I'm talking about a higher end line that is just as good as my work, perhaps better, now that my hands don't work so fast. So, the idea is for them to send me a copy and I'll fine tune them before they go to a music store.

Nothing is set in concrete, just talking about it.....

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 22:06:00
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to Ramon Amira

quote:

Yes, that's the way we should all be. But the point I was making was that if you ask a luthier what qualities a great luthier must have, you would expect an answer something like "a good feel for wood," or something else to do with the various aspects of construction. You would not expect the answer he gave.


I think passion is the answer as everything else can be learned by the craftsman if he has the passion to stick with it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2013 22:24:54
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to Don Dionisio

quote:

Stephen and Anders,
I don't have any problems with you or anyone else on the forum. However, I am tired
Of reading your negativity towards Tom Blackshear. I think the moderators should put an end to this.
I am asking you to please stop it.
Thank you.



I think you are mistaking negativity with total exasperation. Every time the subject of Reyes comes up Mr. Blackshear says the same thing, over and over and over. In fact he says the same thing over and over no matter what the subject is. And he never helps anyone else with any issues Anders, myself and others speak to. If someone has a problem and we are in position to share or comment we usually do. Mr. Blackshear always addresses the exact same issue like a broken record. Anders and I try to participate creatively and answer the questions that many of the high falutin' luthiers are too high up the food chain to bother with.

Anders puts in a lot of time to deal with nuts and bolts questions about set-up, action, sourcing materials and other practical meat & potatoes issues that players need to know. He, I and others do that quite often. Players are getting good specific advice about how and when to deal with repair work and tips for guitar construction. While Mr. Blacshear on the other hand only speaks to one specific problem, albeit for many of us anon existent problem, which is to tune fan braces.

In many respects this is putting the cart before the horse because this activity in the reality of the context of Spanish guitar construction is really esoteric and non-essential to the making of a good or a great guitar. Yet over and and over again Mr. Blackshear comes to every guitar forum with the exact same fomulae of discourse and implies that his method is superior to everyone elses.

So sorry if it bothers you that we are simply tired of the same barrage of anti productive discourse.

In this thread I photographed my own copy of David George's fine book and gave out the information to identify the book via its ISBN number.

Then after I did I realized that eventually Mr. Blackshear would join in and for the 4056th time he will talk about the Blackshear-Reyes plan and not about the Reyes interview from 1960's. Then I thought to myself well what a waste of time, this could have actually been interesting and it could have gotten onto the topic of Gerald Howson's book, but now it will be Toms dog and pony about that damn plan we've seen 4576 times.

So pardon me if I am exasperated.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2013 0:16:11
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1553
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: manuel reyes guitar (in reply to Andy Culpepper

Goma laca is shellac in Spanish.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2013 0:35:58
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: M. REYES BUILD PLANS and brace s... (in reply to estebanana

quote:


I think you are mistaking negativity with total exasperation. Every time the subject of Reyes comes up Mr. Blackshear says the same thing, over and over and over. In fact he says the same thing over and over no matter what the subject is. And he never helps anyone else with any issues Anders, myself and others speak to


Sounds negative to me Stephen but Hey! Let's be cool and have a good time. Life is too short to worry about who is getting the most press time here. I think it is you guys who are letting your presence be known here, most of the time, and it doesn't bother me a bit, as this forum is for all persons who care to give their knowledge and expertise about what they know instead of using this forum to insult other builders.

And I've said it before, even on my website for years now, that if my fine tuning turns out to be something new, then it would be just another way to tune guitars.

I taught Francisco Navarro some fine tuning technique and he went with it to become an excellent builder of the Reyes style, which Vicente Amigo took note of and has agreed to record with them in Spain.

The particular plan that you diss is the best selling plan of all of GAL's plans that they have sold to date. This means that many guitar builders have had the opportunity to learn things that improve their craft.

I think its time to get friendly...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2013 3:26:58
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