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AE911Truth
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: AE911Truth (in reply to Jim Opfer)
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Actually, there is no substantiated evidence that the US Government was responsible for the destruction of the World Trade Center towers. The evidence is overwhelmingly in support of the accepted events: That the jet liners crashed into the Twin Towers, and the heat and flames feeding on themselves and the structural damage caused ever greater damage, which in turn caused the collapse. It is ludicrous to think the US Government was colluding with the Al-Qaeda members who slammed the jet liners into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. I see no convincing evidence (as opposed to speculation) in the AE911Truth reports that would indicate otherwise.
This has been a favorite of conspiracy theorists since the September 11 attacks against the WTC and the Pentagon. People who believe this stuff are known as "Truthers," and they are the equivalent of the "Birthers" who believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya, and that his Hawaiian birth certificate is false. There will always be conspiracy theorists who want to believe such nonsense. The Oliver Stone movie "JFK" is a perfect example. Stone fed into the conspiracy theorists who believe that Kennedy's assassination was the result of a vast conspiracy involving the military, the CIA, and other elements of the US Government. Anyone who has ever worked for the Government knows that if such wide involvement had been the case, it could never have been covered up for the past 50 years. There are a group of fringe conspiracy theorists who believe that the ordinary contrails (condensation trails) that jets leave in the sky are actually chemicals that are being spread for any number of reasons: population control, poison food, etc.
The imagination of conspiracy theorists is limitless.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Jan. 28 2013 23:17:38
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: AE911Truth (in reply to Chilli Fingers)
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quote:
You dont honestly believe in that fairytale do you. No plane even hit building 7, thats fact. C'mon its pretty hard to believe when you hear the facts presented on what is, and what isnt possible when it comes to a building being demolished. And thats coming from a group of engineers and architects not some crackpot left wing group with some communist agenda, lol. They are just looking at the facts and asking for a more thorough investigation, nothing wrong with that. All they are saying is the official report really doesnt add up, based on theyre own research and expertise they arent satisfied at all with the investigation.
I know they are not satisfied. No conspiracy theorist is. Donald Trump is not satisfied that Barack Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate is valid either. But plenty of engineers and architects have studied what happened to the World Trade Center towers and are satisfied that the sequence of events I described, and that the official record describes, are exactly what happened.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Jan. 29 2013 1:05:21
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: AE911Truth (in reply to Jim Opfer)
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Out of curiosity, I have followed a few of the technical arguments regarding the destruction of the World Trade Center and the damage to the Pentagon. From the viewpoint of a 43-year career as physicist, engineer and mathematician, I say the arguments range from the speculative and unsupported to the outright preposterous.
From the standpoint of a 43-year career in the defense and intelligence businesses, I find it unbelievable that such an effort by the govenrment could be concealed.
"The government" is not some monolithic structure under strict control. The elements involved here, the Federal Aviation Agency, the National Institure pf Standards, and the civilian airline industry comprise people from all across the political spectrum, from left to right, from hawkish to pacifist. They span the spectrum from earnest supporters of the Bush administrations's neoconservative policies to the most ardent opponents. Think of the political capital that would accrue to someone who could blow the whistle upon a government plot to kill 3000 innocent citizens.
During my career I held the highest level pf security clearances, plus a variety of intelligence 'tickets' that granted access to 'compartmented' information. To count the number of 'black' projects I was involved in, I would have to go back through an extensive set of diaries. During all 43 years of this career, I was "read into" only one project whose existence was a surprise to me. If it had become public knowledge, it would have revealed a diplomatic relationship that was generally unknown. No immediate benefit would have accrued to anyone breaking the wall of secrecy.
To expand, a Top Secret clearance grants access to a relatively broad range of information. Sensitive "black" projects like the F-117 Stealth Fighter require special background investigations and are limited to a select number of people. Yet I was aware of the existence and general outlines of every black project to which I was granted access, except one. People like to talk. They find ways of conveying information while not violating specific regulations. A fairly accurate scale model of the F-117 Sttealth Fighter was available from Toys 'R Us about a year before a photo was officially released to the public.
The people who developed and tested the Stealth Fighter were the storied but anonymous engineers of the Lockheed Skunk Works. They spent their whole careers working on black projects which revolutionized technology. They were a dedicated elite. But word got out. People like to talk. Information is political capital.
I don't think the U.S.Government is capable of keeping a secret like a 9/11 conspiracy.
RNJ
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Date Jan. 29 2013 5:41:08
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: AE911Truth (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
I don't think the U.S.Government is capable of keeping a secret like a 9/11 conspiracy.
Like you, Richard, I have held (and continue to hold) a Top Secret clearance, at times with SCI, in a career that has involved Foreign Affairs and National Security. Not only would the various elements of the US Government involved with evaluating the September 11 attacks be incapable of maintaining a hermetically sealed secret if they were responsible for the attacks, there is absolutely no rational reason why the US Government would have engineered the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon in the first place. To think otherwise is absurd.
But, of course, to the "Truther" conspiracy theorists, to challenge their assertions of US Government planning and execution of the 9/11 attacks is to confirm in their minds that we are part of the conspiracy to maintain the coverup.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Jan. 29 2013 13:17:20
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: AE911Truth (in reply to Jim Opfer)
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I grew up in Southern California during a time when it was an area that had a strong economic base that was focused in avionics and aircraft engineering. My mother had a job at Bourns in Riverside, she was a PC board assembler and made parts for the B-1 bomber. The area I grew up in was full of military pilots, mechanics, and top level engineers who al undoubtedly had high level security clearances, yet as a third grader you could still glean form adult conversations that there were secret things happening.
We all knew about the famous Skunk Works at Lockheed, it was just lore of the aviation world. Several other people in my extended family had top-top level security clearances, one of them was a crash site investigator for experimental aircraft. He once had to go look at an A-11 crash site ( SR-71) he said there was nothing left of it but melted titanium.
Anyway, those worlds are not sealed up as tight as conspiracy theorists like to think. If you grew up around those aviation cultures you would not be paranoid.
The problem is that in the U.S. conspiracy theory has become a multi million (maybe billion) dollar industry as there are AM Radio shows which are syndicated and have millions of listeners which buy into these cockamame ideas. It's basically propaganda designed to make money without taking the listener through a process of logical reasoning to arrive at a conclusion.
The strategies of the producers of these shows is to prey upon peoples fears and feed into paranoia. The embarrassing thing about it is that as a nation we have let our educational standards drop and have mismanaged our educational systems to the point that these buzzards can operate. When I grew up and was in my formative years of school the California educational system was heavy on science; a school boy could handily refute the delusional claims of most conspiracy theory you hear bandied about.
Conspiracy theories abound now and they are the equivalent of superstition and delusion. Some designers of these popular media shows understand that and use them to make money. Which is why I threw a tantrum a few weeks ago and said Americans will say anything to sell anything. My frustration grows as even guitar makers develop "gimicks" and contribute to the world of sorcery by saying anything on the internet.
Everyone is looking in the wrong place for those who know and practice the true dark arts. The real sorcery is right under everyones nose, the writers, film makers, painters, conductors... all top secret levels that need arduous initiation and years of practice time stirring the caldron. Any fool can make up some story about 911, but the creativity is wasted on that which is untrue.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Jan. 29 2013 20:23:49
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: AE911Truth (in reply to estebanana)
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The US Government engaged in a conspiracy that cuts across various elements, from the State Department, to the Armed Forces, to the 16 various intelligence agencies, to Homeland Security, and everyone has kept mum? Not a chance. Laughable!
We should be afraid, however; we should be very afraid. For unbeknownst to all but a few initiates in today's world, there exists a conspiracy that manipulates all toward the attainment of its evil ends. And it has been in existence and working its malevolent magic, in one form or another, and under one name or another, for centuries. I speak not of the Free Masons, nor of the Knights Templar, although both were influenced and manipulated by the conspiracy at the time, just as we are influenced and manipulated today. Nay, I speak of the...ILLUMINATI. Be afraid, be very afraid. The ILLUMINATI exist.
Cheers,
Bill (from a previous incarnation in Avignon)
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Jan. 29 2013 21:02:09
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Ricardo
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: AE911Truth (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
Right after the unspeakable shooting in Sandy Hook in which all those children were killed a "Truther" movement emerged with the intention of showing how this shooting was a government plot to enrage the population to support a ban on assault rifles. That was truly, truly despicable. Websites sprang up with propaganda which purported the Sandy Hook shooting was sanctioned by the government.
I believe these are sick individuals who acted independently for personal gain and out of a narcissistic need to be in public view. If I ever meet someone in a bar who tells he is one of those kinds of truthers, I will take that bastard outside and gut him with my bare hands.
It's a tricky subject these days, not so easy duality to deal with. On one hand, sure psychos with guns suck. Guns have one and only one physical purpose to KILL...and thats true and the hippies are correct. But they only focus on that aspect. In that sense they are correct...we need to do away with every gun on earth. But it's a bit unrealistic. There is a second important purpose of a gun...a threat. A threat of death. It can be a deterrant or a manipulation depending. That is where it gets too tricky. I agree, ideally we need to do away with violence. But EVERYBODY has to lay em down. The founding fathers did know better than to do something so stupid. Not to bring out on line debate but this was the original and sound thought:
quote:
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."
--Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).
Now the rest of the unarmed world views USA as war mongers...but it's sort of like, I hate to say it, too bad. It's been written IN to our constitution to be such. At least in defensive terms.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Jan. 29 2013 21:48:40
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Pgh_flamenco
Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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RE: AE911Truth (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
quote:
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."
--Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).
Since this isn't the way the constituition is worded a lot of people have disputed this line of reasoning over the years. It is unlikely a levee en masse armed with semi-automatic, assault-style weapons could successfully oppose the US military. A citizen's best defenses against governmental policies are his vote and free speech/expression via the internet. Also, it took over 200 years for the US Supreme Court to rule that the second amendment referred to an individual right.
quote:
…but not even one tid bit of secret facts are known by dumb rednecks on the internet.
Why "rednecks"?
_____________________________
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Date Jan. 29 2013 23:57:54
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brandoscostumes
Posts: 47
Joined: Aug. 28 2010
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RE: AE911Truth (in reply to XXX)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Deniz
The conspiracy theories are, in itself, wrong i think. But the reason they still exist is because 9/11 paid off so well for the US that even if they didnt fake that attack, they probably thought afterwards "dang it, why didnt we had that idea earlier"  being the pretext for 2 wars and providing the moral right to define everybody as terrorist who isnt on par with US interests, are basically the direct effects of 9/11. I remember the paranoia and the spamming of "war on terror" very well in those days in the media. It was awful, as if thats the only problem in the world. And besides, 3k is not much. Military officials can only laugh about such numbers, should be about the amount of dead people in the first week(s) of Iraq or Afghanistan war. A sad day for the victims, but a very successful one for foreign policies department.
michael moore was the single most popular american in germany for years. he is barely above the level of the truthers. so you will forgive americans who dont take your opinions very seriously.
nothing better illustrates the danger of these revisionist conspiracy theories than egypt's recent denial of the holocaust (saying the US faked it and relocated 6 million jews to america) on holocaust remembrance day. specifically it was the guy who appoints the editors of the state-run newspapers, hardly a 'fringe' figure.
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Date Jan. 30 2013 13:48:28
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