nino de pura

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nino de pura

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ivan

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 6 2005

nino de pura

anyone know why he doesn't do much concertizing? I mean, the man is a monster..

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Ivan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2005 16:38:03

Guest

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

They are probably too jealous of his scales, but it's his fault: he doesn't know how to hide his speed very well...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2005 2:00:42

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: nino de pura (in reply to Guest)

i know , i think hes got the fastest picado atm.

I never really got much into his music untill his last album, i really like it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2005 4:32:04

Guest

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

He has already had his concert career: he started off giving solo performances when he was 14. After a while he turned to accompaniment.

The best group I ever saw was Daniel on guitar for Pansequito and Aurora, with Bobote and El Electrico on palmas. He played in a quite subdued traditional style for Pansequito and quite the opposite for Aurora. Everyone in this group had amazing compas.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2005 9:10:29

Guest

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

thanks for the info guys. I love his playing and his alobum Pozo y Caudal is great. I think he has the fastest picado and intensity but lacks the power and sound that Paco gets. Also, If you notice Daniel has a strage position for his right hand when he plays scales. His right hand thumb is next to the treble strings he is playing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 0:35:39

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: nino de pura (in reply to Guest)

Guest i think you should register with this forum, alot of good info and pple to chat with

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 4:38:53

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

Nino de pura puts the thumb on the treble strings too when he plays on the first or second string. A really rare technic, but he does it perfectly.
Pacos picado sounds so hard coz of the setings of the recordings. Nino de puras album is much edited, too. You cant hear the original sound of their picados. Its too much electronically changed. I like Nino de Puras picado much more than Pacos.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 9:12:55

flamencoguru

Posts: 271
Joined: Jun. 30 2004
From: West Palm Beach, Florida USA

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

Hello,

I think Niño de Pura is great but as far as his picado goes, he does not get the agressive picado like Paco does. I highly disagree that Paco's picado sounds the way it does because of his "recording settings". Paco has a tremendous amount of strength and control in his hands, justs as Gerardo Núñez does.

Un saludo, Errol

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 12:27:40

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

Hello! I just listened to Niño de Pura´s recording that I have. To me his picado is not on the same level as Paco's. Granted, he pretty much has the same speed, but Paco's has a lot more control to it. In Paco's picado every note is equal to another, loud and clear, and when he does accidentally miss a note, it's a big event. The same can´t be said about Niño de Para´s picado: the notes are not very even, and he misses a lot. OK, maybe I have a recording that isn´t the best. Any recommendations from the fans?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 12:49:24

Guest

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

Hi,

Yes it could be that Im wrong. But Gerardo plays very silent. He takes the profit of a good technical equipment. That doesnt mean that hes bad. No hes one of the most advanced players maybe the player with the best technic, but I think that its only possible to do all these technics so fast and brilliant when you play more silent.
I have a video of a concert from 05 where paco plays at a jazzfestival in germany. The camera shows his right hand very colse fom the right side. You can perfectly see how he does the picado and all other technics. He plays so creamy that he nearly dont touch the strings. Not hammering like in his past. Maybe in past it was fasion to play like a disel-machine, today they play more silent that they can shape each note. -->(IMO)<--

hmm..it depends on everyons flavour... For me Nino de Pura has the best sounding picado on his actual disk pozo y caudal. Its smooth, clear, not to agressive, its very nice. It fits perfect in his compositions. I mean ok.. he uses it very much, but he uses it in a musically way. Not just bursting a hard passage in a composition as Paco and so many others often did it. Dont understand me wrong. Paco is really great, but I like other players more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 12:59:33

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

Ups I was loged out. The text above is my modest opinion.

Best wishes,
Doitsujin

Grisha, your a big Paco-fan right? I can understand your opinion. But i think with Paco many people overdraw the stories about him. Hes great. But others, too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 13:01:13

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: nino de pura (in reply to Guest)

Guest is like you my twin brother :-)

i agree with you 100 % in everything you said, i like the more shaped picado (more round)

Grisha , the best example of Nino is his pozo y caudal album, i didnt like anything he did before that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 13:07:36

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

DAMN Doitsujin that was you ?!??

greate , i agree with everything you say.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 13:10:33

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

Has anyone ever tried that Fingher Vaseline Paco uses ?

I tried something similar (playd straight after eating KFC)

wasent the same

He must have someone that changes his strings after each performance

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 13:15:41

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

Doitsujin, you got me!!! I really like Paco. I still think that his picado from the 70s was monstrous. But let me tell you from experience that non-agressive, round picado is a bit easier to play. It's faster and you don't get tired.

Cheers to all!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 13:22:25

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: nino de pura (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

round picado is a bit easier to play. It's faster and you don't get tired.

pefect

more reason to use it

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 15:01:45

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

one of the main reasons i like flamenco is the aggressive picado, which is very characteristic for flamenco to me. i can not find anywhere else this specific style of playing single-notes.
to show what i would consider round/aggressive:
zyryab is played round. la barrosa is very aggressive i would say. could you imaginge la barrosa having the same expression with a less aggressive picado? hm... i doubt it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 20:20:59

Guest

RE: nino de pura (in reply to Grisha)

Grisha,

I respectfully disagree w/ you about nino's picado. Please listen to Pozo Y caudal by Nino de pura.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 21:26:44

Guest

RE: nino de pura (in reply to Florian)

Florian, thanks for the invite. Joined as Ivan.

Ivan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 21:37:26

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

hmm.. Ok grisha outed himself beeing a Paco-fan. I out myself, too. Im a very big Nino de Pura-fan.

But my picado is crap...

Hey one year ago I was on his concert. Im lucky. hehe It wasnt big promoted. It was a coincidence that I heared that he´ll give a concert in my range. Im impatiently waiting for his next CD. But I think I have to wait a looong time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2005 21:59:57

ivan

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 6 2005

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

what do you guys mean by a round picado?

Ivan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2005 0:48:44

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

Ivan, I'll post a sample in the uploads section at some point. But I need to record it first.

Doitsujin, I have a friend at the school who can play 2-octave c-major scale at 240, back and forth, back and forth... And he always says that his scales suck! You are in a good company!

Cheers!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2005 1:57:55

Conrad

Posts: 533
Joined: Jul. 16 2003
From: Toronto, ON, Canada

RE: nino de pura (in reply to Grisha)

Sixteenth notes? Yikes. Who is that hombre? A classical player? That's stiflingly fast. Even the great Grisha and Paco would burn out at 220, no?

-Conrad

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2005 2:12:48

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

16th note 2 octaves at 240!? Okay, I give up!

As far as Nino de Pura's picado, I studied with Tino van der Smaan in Sevilla for a short while, and Nino de Pura is Tino's teacher. Tino persuaded me to try Nino de Pura's technique, and you can imagine he knew it pretty well. Basically the main thing is that the thumb is not braced on the strings, but hangs loosely but in contact with them. The term he used is "to caress" the strings.

Another student at this school also studied with Nino de Pura, and he claimed his technique was "perfect"--whatever that means... he also said that you use your shoulder muscles a lot to move up and down, and that Nino de Pura's shoulder was very strong. Apparently he is a bit of a fitness fanatic and is always running and working out. "Fartlet", one of his songs, is a workout technique...well you Europeans are more familiar with that I'm sure.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2005 2:40:08

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

Yes, he's very classical! His name is Steven Lin. We have scale duels together!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2005 2:40:18

slguitarist

Posts: 1
Joined: Oct. 13 2005

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Oct. 13 2005 3:00:01

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2005 2:56:46

Conrad

Posts: 533
Joined: Jul. 16 2003
From: Toronto, ON, Canada

RE: nino de pura (in reply to Conrad)

And I think the best recorded flamenco picado is that of Paco de Lucia "En Vivo Desde El Teatro Real". To me, this is the most aggressive, precise, soaring, and majestic picado. Grisha does an outstanding rendition of Paco's Fandangos from Fuente y Caudal, which is also played on this live album.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2005 3:20:03

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

To me i find that more rounded picado can still be musical and fast and impressive where agressive picado says : "Stop what you doing , it dosent mattaer whats happening in the song check out my speed and i am loud too :-)" ok now back to the melody.

I am not saying one is better than the other i am just saying thats the impression the 2 techniques leave on me.

Rounded, fast but flowing still in context with the melody

Agressive is all about attention grabing, showing off, standing out from everyone else you might be playing with.

At the same time its alot easyer to overuse the Agressive one because it stands out alot more.

I think they both good techniques and u should use them according with your musical requirements. I think is inapropiate to be playing a soft silencio for a alegria that has picado runs trough it and everytime you get to the picado run part you lett it ripp loud and agressive and then you go back to the soft melody

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2005 3:49:37

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: nino de pura (in reply to ivan)

It would be better to hear both versions on the same guitar. So I hope Grisha records both technics on his guitar.

Ok but Im an impatient person. Here I post for first two examples of a round and agressive picado.

The first Nino de Pura on Pozo y caudal with a round picado:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/473/Db84005.wma

The second Rafael Cortes on Campo libre with an agressive picado:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/473/Nl28270.wma

Both are very cool. I think the second falseta with a round picado wouldnt have the same effeckt like an agressive picado. And Ninos sample with an agressive picado wouldnt be good, too. hmm.. It maybe depends on which composition you play, where a round or an agressive picado would fit better.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2005 10:14:54

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: nino de pura (in reply to Doitsujin)

To me the second one sounds muy flamenco - well it sounds like picado. Its more staccato and has that tell tale 'squelch' of a direct rest stroke.

The first one is a lot more legato. It reminded me of the runs played by Strunz and Farah (who play with picks).

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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2005 10:32:48