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Sabicas' new book   You are logged in as Guest
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frhout

 

Posts: 451
Joined: Apr. 28 2005
From: France

Sabicas' new book 

I don't have a lot of details, but according to Alain Faucher, he'll publish a new book on Sabicas in February. Unfortunately, the download part of the site may close.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2013 19:45:10
 
brad

 

Posts: 34
Joined: Nov. 24 2010
 

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to frhout

how did you find out this information ? , because in his website there isn't nothing about of both of this news
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2013 21:39:23
 
frhout

 

Posts: 451
Joined: Apr. 28 2005
From: France

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to brad

I ordered a few pieces from him and he mentioned this to me. I'm one of those long-time customers of his since the beginning, apparently life is difficult, so I try to give him as much support as I can.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2013 21:44:49
 
brad

 

Posts: 34
Joined: Nov. 24 2010
 

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to frhout

Thanks for the info frhout.
His transcriptions through the years have been improving in quality. I hope that the download part don't close, I'd like to buy some.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 8 2013 21:57:10
 
frhout

 

Posts: 451
Joined: Apr. 28 2005
From: France

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to frhout

Faucher's new Sabicas book has finally arrived:
1. Salinas gaditanas alegrías
2. Gran Jota de F.Tarrega
3. Guajira
4. Czardas de Monty (2 guitars)
5. Fantasia Inca
6. Milonga Flamenca (2 guitars)
7. Granaína

Three more from Paco Peña:
1. Alegrías de Cádiz (Live in London)
2. Zapateado (The Incredible Paco Peña)
3.Al Garrotín (The Art of the Flamenco Guitar)

I have the tracks of Live in London (the album is almost impossible to find) which Tomas very kindly sent me a few years ago. I think the Alegrías is called Junqueras, I have the Zapateado but I don't have Al Garrotín, I would appreciate if someone can upload at least a portion of it.

Can't afford it at the moment, I'll have to wait until next month.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2013 13:04:48
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to brad

quote:

His transcriptions through the years have been improving in quality.

Although I haven't seen many of his transcriptions, my impression is that some of his oldest had some inaccuracies and that everything since then (advent of home computers?) is very accurate.

_____________________________

Be here now.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2013 17:35:18
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13336
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to NormanKliman

quote:

ORIGINAL: NormanKliman

quote:

His transcriptions through the years have been improving in quality.

Although I haven't seen many of his transcriptions, my impression is that some of his oldest had some inaccuracies and that everything since then (advent of home computers?) is very accurate.



For the most part he is the most accurate I know of. Some old school stuff might have questionable fingering. New material he got home video of the greats as the reference so I would say 100% accurate if not for the DELIBERATE timing errors he includes that I suspect is to catch anybody stealing his work as their own. (he caught encuentro red handed this way). Considering what is out there he has always been quite on point.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2013 18:04:33
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1762
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to frhout

quote:

I don't have Al Garrotín, I would appreciate if someone can upload at least a portion of it.


I’ve posted it in Audio & Video Uploads.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2013 18:24:54
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

DELIBERATE timing errors he includes that I suspect is to catch anybody stealing his work as their own. (he caught encuentro red handed this way)


Ha-ha, didn't know that. I've read that mapmakers sometimes include nonexistent streets for the same reason.

He deserves more credit, recognition and success, for sure.

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Be here now.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2013 18:26:06
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1762
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

100% accurate if not for the DELIBERATE timing errors he includes that I suspect is to catch anybody stealing his work as their own. (he caught encuentro red handed this way).


Interesting, but what can he do about it? The music’s not his intellectual property anyway…

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2013 18:26:47
 
frhout

 

Posts: 451
Joined: Apr. 28 2005
From: France

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to Paul Magnussen

Hi Paul
Thanks for uploading. I just checked out this album which I don't have on Paco's site, but I have all the tracks on CDs apart from this one. It's an ever so slightly more elaborate version of his Mantoncillo in Toques Flamencos and it doesn't seem to be much more difficult.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2013 18:50:13
 
machopicasso

 

Posts: 899
Joined: Nov. 27 2010
 

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

New material he got home video of the greats as the reference so I would say 100% accurate if not for the DELIBERATE timing errors he includes that I suspect is to catch anybody stealing his work as their own. (he caught encuentro red handed this way).


Can you elaborate on both points? Those being:

1) "the DELIBERATE timing errors" (--Can you cite examples? I have a number of his transcriptions and don't want inadvertently to learn timing errors when learning a piece); and

2) The case(s) in which he "caught encuentro red handed" -- Was that with regard to the Nunez DVD? Tomatito? Chicuelo?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 11 2013 7:26:51
 
machopicasso

 

Posts: 899
Joined: Nov. 27 2010
 

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

Interesting, but what can he do about it? The music’s not his intellectual property anyway…


True, the music is not his intellectual property, but the transcription arguably is. I'm inclined to think the information conveyed in transcriptions is a distinct form of knowledge (and labor), though one which is obviously parasitic on the original composition.

That said, I don't have a sense of the legal safeguards which might protect that kind of intellectual property.

gj Michelob or anyone else?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 11 2013 7:36:06
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1762
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to machopicasso

quote:

True, the music is not his intellectual property, but the transcription arguably is.


IANAL, of course, but my understanding is that the transcription is a derivative work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work

And since the fingering (to the extent that the transcription is accurate, of course) was also formulated by the original player, I don’t see how M. Faucher can even claim copyright in that.

I should probably add that I, personally, have nothing against what he is doing; in fact, in my book he’s providing a public service (even if his prices are too high).

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 11 2013 17:39:55
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13336
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to machopicasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: machopicasso

quote:

New material he got home video of the greats as the reference so I would say 100% accurate if not for the DELIBERATE timing errors he includes that I suspect is to catch anybody stealing his work as their own. (he caught encuentro red handed this way).


Can you elaborate on both points? Those being:

1) "the DELIBERATE timing errors" (--Can you cite examples? I have a number of his transcriptions and don't want inadvertently to learn timing errors when learning a piece); and

2) The case(s) in which he "caught encuentro red handed" -- Was that with regard to the Nunez DVD? Tomatito? Chicuelo?


1. Don't worry much about it. They are super subtle. If you can play any of the stuff in compas properly it will be painfully obvious, almost funny. THings like starting a beat late or early and then a bunch of pointless rests etc. Only a small obvious spot that any player could fix once they are playing the thing close to tempo.

2. I first noticed with Nuñez cuz I know his material pretty well. I heard he had called encuentro on the phone and bitched them out. Everyone seems to bad mouth the guy cuz his work was always "under the table" until his pro looking published books which small royalties are a joke to the artists so they talk bad about him. Imagine my surprise when I noticed both encuentro AND jorge berges copying the same silly timing mistake on a buleria falseta of Gerardo. It was so obvious like two cheaters on a test copying everything including silly mistakes in grade school, and I understand why he got mad. But truth is he can't do anything to about anything unless it was in his published printed books. I started noticing them like bread crums throughout all FAucher's transcriptions. very minor and subtle errors.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 11 2013 22:48:41
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1789
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to Ricardo

unfortunately there are bigger errors too, as i've noticed when being asked to re-work a couple of his transcriptions...but overall, the guy has been doing a great service to the flamenco community and deserves much credit...
(his refusal of tabbing modern flamenco also got me to transcribing, so i guess i owe him as well :))
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 11 2013 23:23:32
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Sabicas' new book (in reply to machopicasso

quote:

That said, I don't have a sense of the legal safeguards which might protect that kind of intellectual property.


There are many details one needs in order to form and express an opinion on this query.
However, in general, transcriptions of music compositions are performed either
1. under license [permission] by the copyright holder -the composer or any dedicated agency;
2. or for work that is no longer susceptible of copyright protection, copyright expired [the period of time of protection is quite a puzzle to determine, between Europe, US and certain International Conventions which affected it].

I woud assume the transcriptions discussed here fall within one or the other, and do not per se infringe the composer's rights. If so they are entitled to copyright protection [but not as derivative work, as they lack any originality of their own -for example a piano or orchestral arrangement of the same would be 'derivative work'].

The 'Deliberate' errors [of which Ricardo speaks] would suggest the kind of slavish copying that may indeed prove the infringement of coyright [which, as the word spells out, is the 'right to make copies'].

It is easier to protect work made under license, where both the composition and the transcription enjoy copyright protection. However, for compositions which are no longer protected [or did not enjoy protection in the first place, because they lacked originality] it becomes difficult to present a compelling case.

Above all, in an action to enforce copyright for this infringement, the reward -monetary damages- would probably be less than the cost required to bring the action, at least in the US, thus deterring any belligerent intention, legitimate as it maybe.

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 2:13:25
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