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RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some Issues   You are logged in as Guest
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orsonw

Posts: 1427
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to HolyEvil

quote:

I think fd is a problem that is almost unsolvable. we just have really bad habits trained into us by ourselved.


In my opinion, current neuroscience research suggests that focal dystonia is solvable. Anecdotally, it is also my own personal experience that recovery is possible.

Focal dystonia is caused by changes in the somatosensory cortex. The brain is plastic; that means further changes can take place to over come the dystonia. Focal dystonia simply means unwanted/unnecessary contraction of specific muscles during specific tasks. eg index curling during arps or picado.

Of course when learning a high level skill like flamenco everyone needs to learn to relax muscles. But if one is noticing being unable to play what was previously possible, if strong flexing or extending of non participating fingers begins to occur- this suggests focal dystonia. It's best not to ignore it, because ploughing on practicing in the same ways to overcome it will make it worse.

As you are discovering it takes time to recover but it is possible- don't give up!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2013 17:18:41
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1239
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to orsonw

quote:

ORIGINAL: orsonw
It's best not to ignore it, because ploughing on practicing in the same ways to overcome it will make it worse.

As you are discovering it takes time to recover but it is possible- don't give up!



yep.. baby steps.. I can play stuff that I use to be able to play at 150bpm now at about 110bpm.. but not picado tho.. cuz i've been focusing all my energy to retrain my arppegios rather than picado...
use some different exercises to retrain the finger(s).

the reason why I did my exercises as im, a im, a and i, am, i, am;
was the fact that my i finger would just curl and if I plucked 2 strings with my im together, m would return and i would just be fixed in that position..
that exercise helped retrain my m finger to guide my i finger to go back to the string after i've played the 2 strings.

another thing that i started doing last week was imami on one string, the G or B string. somethings i do imam,imim,imam,imim etc and it has helped my finger to relearn flexing of the proximal interphalangeal joint (the flexing which was unwanted right at the beginning of my problem) properly and relaxing.

you and ellie are more much more advanced in skills than I am and i'm sure it's even more disappointing to you guys when you had the problem, but I'm sure with dedication, we can do it!


off topic to orson:
have you tried La Bella classical strings set (not the flamenco strings set), I heard it's a nice set.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 23 2013 23:02:41
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to orsonw

quote:

it'll take time.. I don't think it's focal dystonia. I think fd is a problem that is almost unsolvable. we just have really bad habits trained into us by ourselved.

you know I ask my self this question everyday. do what I am experiencing is focal dystonia ?
but the expert guys here who im so grateful to, blondie and orsonw and others just confirmed it ... so we need to deal with it

you know i teach some students, i have a young student about 10 years old [4th grade] ... actually he's very good player for his age, and his pinky sticks out all the time. I warn him about it but he replies : he has no control over it at all.

I have another student who is freshman at college ... he's a phenomenal student , he developed the habit of flexing and extending his thumb very fast very often while playing with the other fingers
and when i asked him, why are you doing that he replied : he thinks its cool i was in a shock ... he might thought its cool at the beginning but he's not able to control it now

a part from what i want to say is : those two are my top students technically and they both have some issues .. they are not suffering at the moment but im not sure of the future

quote:

I hope with determination and a little luck and smiles from God.. we'll all be able to recover.

hoping the same for you mate

quote:

Focal dystonia is caused by changes in the somatosensory cortex. The brain is plastic; that means further changes can take place to over come the dystonia. Focal dystonia simply means unwanted/unnecessary contraction of specific muscles during specific tasks. eg index curling during arps or picado


those are some great words.

HolyEvil

I suggest that you try playing with one finger (the exercise i posted formerly) ... try playing with one finger, I believe that your hand should be relaxed then step by step add another finger maintaining the same feeling ... when you feel something wrong happening get back to one finger ... and switch between the two combinations
M M M M M M M I M I M I M M M M M I M I M
I I I I I I I I M I M I M I I I I I M I M I MI I I I

practicing that allowed me to build up partial trust with my I-M fingers again and i believe im achieving good results

quote:

another thing that i started doing last week was imami on one string, the G or B string. somethings i do imam,imim,imam,imim etc

these are great im practicing them too
i am doing a long bursts with simple melodies or scales something like I-M-I-M-I-M-I-M-I-A-I-A-I-A-I-A-I-A-M-A-M-A-M-A-M-A-M-A-M-A-I-X-I-X-I-X-I-X-I-X-A-X-A-X-A-X-A-X
and i can tell its making me feel good

http://www.banjohangout.org/topic/254500
http://thebluegrassshack.blogspot.ch/2013/01/banjo-pickers-splint-for-focal-dystonia.html

this girl has a FD similar to you Holy ... check the splint trick
I might use it on my M during I-A picado
unless someone criticizes the method



happy playing guys

_____________________________

http://www.youtube.com/user/GuitarristaAD
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2013 7:08:31
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Thoughts on Technique and Some I... (in reply to Elie

quote:


you know I ask my self this question everyday. do what I am experiencing is focal dystonia ?
but the expert guys here who im so grateful to, blondie and orsonw and others just confirmed it


Well I would refer you to my earlier post about where does tension end and FD begin etc? At the end of the day its a label, and worrying about whether you have it or not gets you nowhere really. There is no test, so diagnosis is by observation/opinion and ruling out other things. You clearly have a motor control issue, whatever you want to call it.

Splinting I mentioned earlier, its part of a therapy used By Victor Candia, Nancy Byl and others, with limited success.

Yes you can wear a splint like this woman that restricts an unwanted flexion - in her case preventing her index from curling tightly up, this appears to enable her to play, at least for now. However, to what extent is her index simply flexing tightly against that splint? The whole point of this should be to help her to retrain her hand, eliminate any tension and specifically to address WHY her index is reacting like that - eg work on the other finger(s) that are causing that compensatory movement.

MY index did exactly the same as hers when I first got FD. The problem was my M finger, and its relationship with I. Fix M, I stops curling.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2013 9:14:13
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