Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navarro guitar choice

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jajabinker

Posts: 3
Joined: Nov. 7 2012

Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navarro g...

Hello to all flamenco enthusiasts experienced and new!

I want to learn the art of flamenco. I have a hofner classical guitar, an aged HAC(204) which is cheap and sounds fantastic but the action is terribly high and sound is too "delicate" for flamenco.

I have kept aside 950$ USD to bu a flamenco. Now i live in India and the range of flamenco guitars is next to nothing. The only choice from a local dealer is a Manuel Rodriguez C3F priced at 640 USD. But from my experience in guitars i do not want to shy on spending for a certain quality.

So from reading around i hear the "Francisco Navarro Garcia 'Student Flamenco'" is good for the money. Priced at 950$ USD. But i find the Rodriguez C3F better sounding than the Navarro. Better in the sense brighter and more dynamic. On the contrary the Navarro sounds warmer to. This i have to buy onloine but there is a chance i can ask someone to get it for me.

But I don't trust my ears and I don't think I know what to look for in a good flamenco guitar (other than price). So I would greatly appreciate anyone experienced help me decide.

One important question is : If the Navarro is better sounding. is the 300$ difference worth the quality increment?

Obrigado!

Jonathan

Samples

Navarro Sample 2

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2012 11:59:25

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

Honestly, Manuel Rodriguez have to be my least favorite guitar. They sell them at guitar center and anytime a salesmen hears me playing around in their nylon room they put one in my hands and they've all been really stiff and unresponsive. IMO I'd pay more for any other brand. I've only played one Navarro and I loved it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2012 13:26:07

Guitart Flamenco

Posts: 40
Joined: Aug. 26 2012

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to Leñador)

A wonderful Rodriguez nomex, signed and certificate direct by Don Manuel...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221148625720&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2012 16:47:28

sig

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

I can tell you from personal experience that it is worth spending the extra $300usd on the Navarro. I owned a C3F and compared to a student Navarro i've played, it was no contest. I think the Navarro offers you the ability to grow with the instrument where the C3F is strictly a starter instrument, at least the one I owned. The Navarro is easier to play, with a better overall sound and flamenco tone. in addition, if you find you are not as enamored with flamenco as you first thought, it will be much easier to re-sell a Navarro.

The true problem is trying to buy an instrument without the ability to try it out first. The Rodriguez isn't a bad guitar but like most factory built guitars, quality varies greatly. One might be good and another poor. I think you will have better luck with the Navarro and well worth the extra expense.
Sig--

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2012 22:09:33

jajabinker

Posts: 3
Joined: Nov. 7 2012

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

Thank yo for the responses.

I will go for the navarro. I have a find a way to ship it though

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 9 2012 4:43:18

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jajabinker
I want to learn the art of flamenco. I have a hofner classical guitar, an aged HAC(204) which is cheap and sounds fantastic but the action is terribly high and sound is too "delicate" for flamenco.

Your Hofner may be adequate. To lower the action all you'd really need to do is to file down the saddle. On this forum check some older videos of the user Rombsix; he plays flamenco (incredibly well) on a Hofner classical guitar. Really, check his videos out, he's testament you don't need a flamenco guitar to play flamenco.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jajabinker
I have kept aside 950$ USD to bu a flamenco. Now i live in India and the range of flamenco guitars is next to nothing. The only choice from a local dealer is a Manuel Rodriguez C3F priced at 640 USD....
So from reading around i hear the "Francisco Navarro Garcia 'Student Flamenco'" is good for the money. Priced at 950$ USD. But i find the Rodriguez C3F better sounding than the Navarro. Better in the sense brighter and more dynamic. On the contrary the Navarro sounds warmer to. This i have to buy onloine but there is a chance i can ask someone to get it for me.

But I don't trust my ears and I don't think I know what to look for in a good flamenco guitar (other than price). So I would greatly appreciate anyone experienced help me decide.

You should always trust your own ears, and not someone else's. The fact that you say that you don't trust your ears is a indication that you have a lot to learn about what you like, which I believe is a indication that your tastes are yet to develop.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jajabinker
One important question is : If the Navarro is better sounding. is the 300$ difference worth the quality increment?

The cost won't be $300 more, it'll be much more. There'll be shipping which I imagine at the least would be $300, then there'll be duty/tax which may even be another $300 (which I think is very likely).

***
I personally believe that you should attempt to learn Flamenco on your classical guitar for now. The amount which you have mentioned is a serious amount of money for a guitar and I wouldn't rush into buying a guitar at this moment in time until you appreciate what your ears are after.

When it comes to shipping as well, the cost for shipping from America, Spain or England (to name a few) to India could be a massive cost (eg I've sometimes seen it from the US to UK being £150, that could easily be doubled for India). You may find some better deals looking around in other countries closer eg Malaysia, Singapore, and Hong Kong to name a few.

Good luck with the journey...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2012 10:30:24

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

I wish I bought a CHEAPER guitar for my first nylon string. I had no idea what I would end up actually wanting out of my guitar. "Have to have a cut-a-way" "Have to have built in electronics" "Dark wood" it was really ridiculous...........

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2012 14:54:08

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

jaja bink(er): As your movie character might say if you buy a Manuel Rodriquez: My forgotten, da Bosses will do terrible tings to me TERRRRRIBLE is me going back der!

Tom Nunez may have a couple of used Navarro with pegs for sale. Send him an e-mail.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2012 15:19:35

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

hi there, I've tried the manuel rodriguez guitar, then c3f and the fl3(i think it's called this) and I think the navarro is alot better.
but I've only seen 1 example of each.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 14 2012 10:22:01

beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

ALL the Rodriguez I've tried/heard so far were crap.
just my 2 cents...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 14 2012 18:30:07

FlamencoD

Posts: 113
Joined: Apr. 7 2012
From: Portland, OR

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

You should be able to find a used C3F for a lot less than $640 USD on some of the big websites - musiciansfriend.com, guitarcenter.com, or music123.com. In fact, I think they are about $550 new and down near $300 used. For the new ones you can usually use a 15% off coupon. I'm not sure about shipping to where you are, though. The C3F is an entry level guitars, although nicer than the entry level Yamaha or Cordobas I've played. That said, I have a 2012 Navarro Concert Blanca flamenca and it is amazing, but it is more expensive than your price point. That said, I would suggest the Navarro Student Blanca over a C3F, it is all solid wood, and a nicer instrument, even at the student level, with more room for you to grow as a player before having to upgrade.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 27 2012 2:24:03

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

Someone told me that Navarro's are difficult to be selled later.

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 29 2012 23:31:42

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

There is not the slightest comparison between the two. The Navarro is much better. And contrary to the post above, they have excellent resale value. A really good guitar will always have good resale value.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2012 0:39:52

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

hi johnathon,
i'm the person in the second video you posted. coincidentally, i have had both, although i had the concert model navarro. there's videos of me playing the navarro in some of other videos.

and you can't really trust videos. there are too many variables. go with the navarro! the c3f doesn't even come with a golpeador.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2012 6:48:35

FlamencoD

Posts: 113
Joined: Apr. 7 2012
From: Portland, OR

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

One more thing to add...in my venture to find a good flamenco guitar, I wanted to try out the Manuel Rodriguez Model FF just to rule it in or out as an option. It's the higher end factory made, all solid wood Flamenco guitar by Rodriguez with the "top of the line" specs (German spruce top, etc.). I actually bought it with a coupon online and compared it to the Francisco Navarro Concert I also bought online at the same time. Let's just say there really was no comparison in sound quality between the two - the Navarro was far and away better. The Rodriguez did have a pretty rossette and purfling if that means anything to you! I'd imagine you'll find a similar comparison between the C3F and the Navarro Student model - I'm willing to bet the Navarro will be significantly better, even though I haven't played the two.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2012 0:03:41

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

I can't say it enough, I hate Manuel Rodriguez guitars. I've played like 10 of 'em and they were all really hard to play and had really poor projection and sound overall. Am I the only one who thinks they may be the worst guitars out there?
I'll take a $200 Cordoba over a 2K Rodriguez....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2012 0:56:00

FlamencoD

Posts: 113
Joined: Apr. 7 2012
From: Portland, OR

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to Leñador)

Lenador, I've played at least 5 of the Cordoba "Gypsy King" Flamenco guitars, and those are utterly terrible. Every last one of them. The C3F IMO is a better guitar, at least to me it sounds better. I've played the $500 Cordoba Flamenco (can't remember the model #) and it wasn't terrible. The Yamaha CG172SF or whatever it is called is awful looking, but better sounding than the Cordoba Gypsy King model, and it's only $300. Probably not better than the C3F I've tried. That said, they are all entry level guitars, so none of them at that price point are going to be great.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2012 2:05:02

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

^i agree. cordobas are terrible!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2012 3:05:46

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Manuel Rodriguez/Francisco Navar... (in reply to jajabinker)

That's all true, I got worked up and over embellished. I've played that Gypsy King model and it made my fingers want to jump off of my hand......

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2012 4:13:25