RE: "Luthiers share your creations" thread

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Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Wish I could sit at this corner of the table and sip a cup of coffee away.

You could if you could as quiet as my photografer, Mr. Tripod.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 23 2013 16:52:25

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I know I couldn´t.
Rather be bubbling away all the time, like "I like this or that", "What do you think ..." and naturally "How do you make this and that?"

|0)

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 23 2013 22:33:28

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I know

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 24 2013 6:52:46

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

These are my creations, my contributions to society and the health of lumbar systems everywhere.

Cast off your subluxations, embrace the slant of life.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 24 2013 7:18:06

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to estebanana)

I like this photo. I like diagonal lines and angles. And this photo is full of that

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2014 16:25:04

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Yes, it is a very nice photo and beautiful work. I just came upstairs to relax after gluing the fingerboard on a guitar I am making, so it is amusing to see this now.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2014 0:12:20

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Just to make things clear:
What I´m doing on the photo is gluing the neck on the box. The fingerboard is glued on with 2 drops of Hide glue and will be popped off when i start the varnishing and later glued on when the fiddle has been finished.
The fingerboard is glued on in order to control the neckangle when making the mortise an later when gluing the neck.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2014 7:38:06

Wayne Brown

Posts: 124
Joined: Oct. 22 2012
From: Huntersville, North Carolina, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

This is for you Anders. Here is a violin that was found in a pile of trash on the side of the road, waiting to got to the landfill. My wife's cousin rescued it, used it for a wall decoration, and later gifted it to me.
It had four cracks in the top, top and back were separating, poorly replaced nut, and the finish was trashed. With a little TLC, it is back playable. Sounds good when my friend (a violinist/fiddler) plays it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2014 15:20:36

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Just to make things clear:
What I´m doing on the photo is gluing the neck on the box. The fingerboard is glued on with 2 drops of Hide glue and will be popped off when i start the varnishing and later glued on when the fiddle has been finished.
The fingerboard is glued on in order to control the neckangle when making the mortise an later when gluing the neck.

As indicated by the big clamp.

In some guitar building concepts and now in this picture with the violine I see necks glued on as blanks and apparently shaped afterwards.
Irritating to me who assumes the carving / grating and planing much more awkward with the corpus attached.

There will be good reason to do this way though, and I am interested in learning about it, if ya guys don´t mind the typing.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2014 15:26:05

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Irritating to me who assumes the carving / grating and planing much more awkward with the corpus attached.

¿Do you get irritated easily?

Well, thats the traditional way of building spanish guitars and violins. In the case of the Spanish guitar the advance is obvious. The guitar is assembled around the neck and so, the neck gets assembled very early in the process. This way it easily gets dented while finishing the instrument and a square neck can be set in wise while doing things like bindings.
In the matter of the fiddle, there´s no problem in shaping the neck before assembly as long as you leave a little extra wood in the heel, so that it can be matched to the heel button of the back and many violins/fiddles are made that way

Wayne thats an interesting violin. weird that people throw things like that away.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2014 15:49:36

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Thanks for explaining, Anders!

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2014 16:20:01

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

weird that people throw things like that away.

I thought the same thing. Must be aftermath of America´s era as very wealthy nation. ( Enough to let pedestrians had have crumbs too, now being withdrawn again by an international high-society even more exclusive and stuffed and in the same time meaner than ever.)

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2014 16:27:32

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

Irritating to me who assumes the carving / grating and planing much more awkward with the corpus attached.

What Anders said, plus you really can't carve the neck until you glue the fingerboard on, which happens after the neck is already attached to the body in Spanish construction.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2014 20:54:42

Wayne Brown

Posts: 124
Joined: Oct. 22 2012
From: Huntersville, North Carolina, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

Ruphus, This violin was found in front of an African-American childrens nursery that had closed.
I suspect that it had been in their toy box. They had no idea of its value or whether it could be repaired.
In researching, it is a Mittenwald violin over 100 yrs old. It's not a Strad but it has a nice sound and good volume.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2014 21:26:55

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

Hi, Ruphus.
I want to elaborate on Andy's response. It is very useful to have the neck in rectangular shape for as long as possible to facilitate clamping in a vise. Then when the fingerboard is glued on and frets are installed, the excess neck wood on either side of the fingerboard creates handy ledges for supporting a file while filing the ends of the frets flush to the fingerboard. And as Andy implied, the neck is carved around the fingerboard. The exact size, shape, and position of the fingerboard may not be known until after it is glued on.

In fact, I change the shape of the fingerboard slightly when I carve the neck, by tying the bottom long edges in with the curve of the neck, and I also sand the long edges a little (along with the fret ends), making the fingerboard slightly narrower.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2014 4:19:13

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

But there would be nothing wrong in building nylon strings like steel string acoustics and finish the body and the neck seperately, and then join them using whatever body/neck joint that is out there. Its just a matter of tradition.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2014 7:29:51

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Wayne Brown)

quote:

In researching, it is a Mittenwald violin over 100 yrs old.

That means it can be whatever. From a masters violin to a students first build.
On the photos it looks very good. I personally dont like the back inlay. But thats just me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2014 7:32:14

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Looks as if "irritation" meant something much more shaking than it means in German, where it rather equals say "to be puzzled".

Thank you a lot for the kind explanations! :O)
I hadn´t thought of the fingerboard, indeed. Neither assumed that frets will be installed prior to neck shaping.
Very interesting.
-

Also thanks for heads up on the violine finding. Makes sense.

Been looking at that inlay too. The maples grain is faint around it.
As if there had been applied filler to make up for gaps without sanding down again enough or so (?)

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2014 8:02:08

Wayne Brown

Posts: 124
Joined: Oct. 22 2012
From: Huntersville, North Carolina, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

Ruphus, when I received that violin, that inlay had pieces of abalone that appeared to be floor scraps pressed into a mastic.
Over half of the abalone was missing. Also the abalone was oddly shaped and randomly placed that it would have been difficult
to duplicate. So, I chose to remove the abalone and filled the voids with ebony dust mixed with glue. I had to be extremely careful
in sanding level so as not to destroy the purfling that surrounds the black design. Would I put an inlay on the back of a violin that I was
building from scratch?......No!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2014 13:07:27

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras

Hi, Ruphus.
I want to elaborate on Andy's response. It is very useful to have the neck in rectangular shape for as long as possible to facilitate clamping in a vise. Then when the fingerboard is glued on and frets are installed, the excess neck wood on either side of the fingerboard creates handy ledges for supporting a file while filing the ends of the frets flush to the fingerboard. And as Andy implied, the neck is carved around the fingerboard. The exact size, shape, and position of the fingerboard may not be known until after it is glued on.

Since I like to use the table saw to rough out the neck we've found it easier to carve the heel and foot before attaching the sides. It makes the carving much easier. The heel is pretty much finished except for final sanding and the top of the neck is left a tiny bit wider than the fingerboard which is shaped after gluing. I always know the dimensions of the fingerboard before assembly of the guitar is begun. There are no hard rules about building. That's what makes this forum so valuable, I'm constantly picking up ideas here.

Here's a picture showing a double body kit with a roughed out neck:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2014 14:12:10

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

we've found it easier to carve the heel and foot before attaching the sides. It makes the carving much easier.

that's pretty much what I do too. it makes a lot of sense

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2014 14:54:08

Tom Blackshear

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Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to jshelton5040)

Since the heel is somewhat elongated what do you have to finish out on the heel by hand, and what is the radius of the saw blade, and have you ever tried it with a radial saw? Thanks. I hate to carve heels but put up with it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2014 15:43:41

Ruphus

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Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hey Wayne,

Now I see. Thanks for explaining! :O)

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2014 16:00:54

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear

Since the heel is somewhat elongated what do you have to finish out on the heel by hand, and what is the radius of the saw blade, and have you ever tried it with a radial saw? Thanks. I hate to carve heels but put up with it.

It's a standard 10' blade. There's still a fair amount of chisel work involved but the saw eliminates most of the excess material so one just finishes the profile. Some of the shaping is also done with an oscillating spindle sander and bandsaw. I like using the table saw since it makes the two sides of the heel and foot exact mirror images. I should think a radial arm saw could be made to work but you would need to figure out a way to put an accurate stop on it to control the depth of cut. Next time I saw out a neck I'll post a couple of pictures. It's really very simple.

Here's the same picture from another angle:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2014 18:11:05

Andy Culpepper

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Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Flamenca negra

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2014 16:41:27

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Very pretty as usual!
Hope it sounds as good as it looks?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2014 17:31:47

Tom Blackshear

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RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Nice Andy, I'm proud of you.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2014 18:15:32

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Looks beautiful, Andy.

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Ethan Deutsch
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2014 19:10:20

Andy Culpepper

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Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Thanks guys, I'm flattered. Will post a video soon.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2014 19:14:17

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Eye-candy!

Perfect how the redwood compliments that RW brown, and how the shades arrangement peaks around the framed tie block!
Remarkable also the eye´s expectation completed at the headstock, where the cedar slots appear so red behind the RW. Almost as if it was redwood, just rounding up the visual composition.

And sound?
Provided the common trademark: The flatter of a snorting black bull under cork oaks.
Cortland really is in Andalusia don´t you know. :O)

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2014 22:14:44