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Picado. New to guitar and flamenco
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FlamencoD
Posts: 113
Joined: Apr. 7 2012
From: Portland, OR
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RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (in reply to el.toro)
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That exercise is called the inchworm. Use a metronome and start out very, very slow. That is the only way to get good at picado (and any flamenco techique). Eventually the speed will come...here's how. Put the metronome on about 60 bpm and play quarter notes picado. Once you're comfortable with that speed go up to 65 bpm, then 70, and so on. Tap your left foot on the beats. When the tempo gets too fast to tap quarter notes comfortably, drop your tempo back down to 55 or so and do 1/8th notes on picado, still tapping quarter notes with your foot, alternating, working your way up in speed (60,65,70,75,etc.). Eventually work up to sixteenth notes and reset your tempo to 60 bpm and continue increasing tempo as you get comfortable with the tempos. This method works. I'm not a professional like some on this forum, but right now I'm actively doing this technique. I can do picado sixteenth notes at 90 bpm up and down the scales. Picado is probably the technique that takes longest to master and is one of my weakest techniques. When the inchworm gets too boring you can do this with scales. Start out with a basic position, then start moving the positions around. I use this metronome training method for all techniques. Picado, tremelo, apreggios, rakes, etc. It really works, it helped my rakes immensely after only about 3 hours of direct metronome practice.
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Date Sep. 22 2012 3:00:15
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z6
Posts: 225
Joined: Mar. 1 2011
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RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (in reply to el.toro)
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Ricardo is correct. No need to think about muscles. Bip, bip, bip. My experience is that one must be 'ripe' for particular advice to 'take hold'. But if you just go bip bip bip, you will get there. Speed will not and cannot come, in any meaningful way, until you have learned to play 'picado'. For me, the shape of the nails made all the difference. Everything changed when the nails got worked out properly. But I've played classical for more than thirty years and tried to learn flamenco for almost two years. My technique was already quite relaxed (not from classical, but from the last two years). People will tell you it's not about speed. And they will be right. It took me an awful lot of work to get 'a' picado. But I'm in no hurry. It feels fast, it feels easy. It'll get faster or not, I don't care. But I can run up and down all day without any effort now. It's an addictive feeling. But getting the nail shape right was everything for me. It's about separating the gold from all the noise. It's about applying advice 'when' it makes a difference. Erik has some great posts that apply to people like me, people who can play and must unlearn before they can learn. Keep it simple... bip bip bip. That's all you'll ever need. It's like magic. Ricardo's advice was a great gift to me. Trust it.
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Date Sep. 25 2012 16:11:14
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (in reply to n85ae)
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quote:
Look at any good flamenco guitar players extensor muscles in their right hand fingers got any pictures of that? if you look at any good anatomy book you will see that the extensor (and flexor) muscles that move (flex and extend) the fingers are not in the fingers, and also not even in the hand, they are actually in the forearm. quote:
there are NO developed muscles actually involved in the fingers moving, it's tendons. no flexor or extensor muscles in the fingers or hands, yes, but without muscles the tendons don't move. It is muscles attached to the tendons that power the movements. The muscles are in the forearm, the tendons fun through the wrist and hand to the fingers. There are however muscles in the hand and fingers that abduct and adduct the fingers (move them from side to side), so when you make eg. a five fret stretch and then return to fingers within two or three frets you are using abductors and adductors in the hand and fingers. quote:
No muscular strength is needed technically this is incorrect. I know it's gonna sound like splitting hairs etc. but some muscular strength is needed, just not very much. I guess I it might depend on your definition of "strength" but for sure you need muscle activity to create movement. You just don't need very much to play a thin nylon guitar string! pretty much everyone is gonna have more than enough strength in their hands and fingers, so yeah, it is all about learning to control and use those muscles, or as you sayquote:
it is all mental control
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Date Sep. 25 2012 18:49:06
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z6
Posts: 225
Joined: Mar. 1 2011
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RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (in reply to n85ae)
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quote:
Play a chromatic scale til your right hand burns, then say it's all about training your mind. It's not. Regards, Jeff Jeff, I'm not rying to be cute but what burns when you play chromatic scales? I almost never play them. I hate them. But what burns? Is it the tips of the fingers or the joints, the back of the hand, what? Picado feels, to me like tapping. Almost like hammering down on the string. There's a nice feeling of potential in it. But my hand never burns, ever. Are you talking about going super fast? Because I can't do that. I tend to be of the 'mind' school here as well, but I'm not super fast or anything. It seems to me that 'getting' a picado is the tough part. Impossible for me for many, many years, but once one has it then it does seem to all be in the bonce. One might say that over years I've built up strength, but that's not how it happened. I only made progress when I started to play without nails (I had a hook). Then, at Ricardo's suggestion, I grew them, filed them flat across and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, I applied glue. Then the magic happened. Bip bip bip. All in the mind. In fact, I'm so used to not being able to play fast and clean and controlled for long runs I have to devise ways to convince myself to accept that it's really happening. An actual picado that increases in speed of its own accord. But now that it's there, it's the ease, the feel of it that matters. It's a wonderful feeling of power and control. It's such a lovely feeling I sometimes do it for hours and hours. (Please, no monkey spanking jokes) The end joint on my index can hurt a little bit but that's all. No burning. I don't think analysis in these matters is helpful at all. We give ourselves too many bum steers on these things. Glue, filing, bip. It's so easy. It only took me thirty years to get to the stage of a proper beginner.....
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Date Sep. 25 2012 23:55:21
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