RE: Building violin no. 1

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gbv1158

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

Ole-een! Awesome sounding, always wanted to learn some violin............

yes!!! me too! :-)

GREAT ANDERS!

ciao,
giambattista

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 9 2012 19:00:07

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

Thanks everyone. I´ve played 9 month now since I sterted again and I´m happy with my progress. Its still a bit stiff....

Ready to assemble the body

So here´s the 3 parts that will make the body of the violin. All ready and glue is being heated in the glue pot. Nimbus is waiting for things to happen as well.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 8:48:08

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Nimbus is waiting for things to happen as well.

Little cuty! :O)

So with violins obviously corpus assembly first, before mounting the neck.
Why is that?

Ruphus

PS:
I´d like to ask you in a separate thread about how flamenco scene can become tirsesome too.
Sounds quite like life in the end, only that it appears strange to me who - sans empirics- imagines duende sociology so apple pie.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 14:47:33

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

quote:

So with violins obviously corpus assembly first, before mounting the neck.
Why is that?

Well, thats just the way its done.... And the real reaso is that this way you remove the neck and reset the neck angle if/when the thing gets a little tired of all the strings trying to make it collaps
Steelstring acoustics have the body assembled before adding the neck for the same reason and some make spanish guitars like that as well. I think Aaron Green does like that nowadays. But better ask him. Besides, there are many different ways of attaching the neck to an acoustic guitar. Pins, dovetail, mortise/tenon and bolts. And maybe more that I dont know.

An interesting read about attaching the neck on an acoustic guitar using bolts:

http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Articles/Special%20interest/headblock.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 16:21:14

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

Your dog looks like the dog from Tin Tin.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 19:37:38

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

No. Tintins dog is a totally white fox terrier. They have longer legs and ears that flop down halfways.
Nimbus is a west Highland white terrier and he´s a LOT of fun and always ready for action.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 21:10:49

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

I think I just see it in the eyes. So he is a Scottish dog?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 21:20:37

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

He´s very scottish and he likes getting dirty:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2012 9:09:49

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

So, finally they found the Monster of Logness in Spain!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2012 9:42:10

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

Hehehe!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2012 10:02:39

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

Gluing the back to the sides:

The way I, and others, glue is to put hot hide glue on both surfaces. Let it dry, clamp it together and the loosen on or twoo spool clamps a time and reheat/moist the glue with a hot knife that has been in almost boiling water.
This way you can control that everything stays where it should stay and its slow and relaxing. Two important words for me these days.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2012 8:20:26

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Lovely clamping!

From what I´ve heard Spanish DIY superstores aren´t sorted like the ones in Germany.
Yet, what a dream still compared to here where there are none to start with, and each every special seek for parts being so exhausting and often vainly ( no use to using tel-phones in advance).

Did you not take washers ( to protect the wooden sockets ) for the pressure being only very moderate?

Think I don´t understand: Even with loosening two clamps you won´t get through between the pieces with the knife, or will you?
You won´t mean to re-heat the glue only on the outer edge of the pieces?

Ruphus

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2012 10:14:29

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

The hot knife is very thin and it easily goes inbetween the back and the sides. Its easy stuff.
The spool clamps are padded with kork (corcho) and they are of course homemade.

Things like that, I can buy in my village, but everything more special must be bought online in Madrid or outside Spain.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2012 11:17:00

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I assume the knife is lying in the background in the photo. It looks like what we would call in English a "palette knife". Painters use it to mix paints on their palette. A palette knife is indeed very thin and flexible.

I had never heard of this technique for gluing. I often learn something from your posts, Anders.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2012 14:39:53

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

The knife is the one in the glue pot, where it is being kept hot. In Danish its called a paletkniv, so I assume its the same thing. And yes, you can get them from artist stores. This one is bend in a special way, so that it can be used for taking off fingerboards and bridges.
The tecnique comes from repairing violins. Its pretty normal that a violin unglues in the lower bout because of humidity and heat from the player. Then you heat your knife, evt, you add a bit of thin hot hide glue and then you wackle around between the sides and the top or back until you can feel the glue melts and then you clamp. Its very easy to feel when the glue melts. Instruments from the violin family are very well thought out. I often feel that guitars are premature creetures compared. Guitars are such bastards to repair. I cant get my hand all the way down to the bottom through the soundhole. My arm is to thick and I´m pretty skinny.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2012 15:43:49

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

Washers I meant for the sides with the thumscrews. ( Albeit, if power or wood would had made them necessary for protection you certainly wouldn´t had skimmed on them.)

Once again, something interesting learned with the melting knife-technique. Thanks, Anders!

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2012 15:59:21

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

When building musical instruments, lots of pressure is not necessary. Its all about being precise.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 12 2012 21:25:35

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

And here we go with the gluing of the belly. Same show. Just a bit easyer because with the back on, the rib structure is a lot more stable.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 14 2012 8:28:37

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

A pleasure to look at. So esthetically, with the forms and emphasizing lines of grain et al!

I see scrape tracks at the upper part of the top, but there will certainly be some final sanding yet. ( And your decision about what to do with the "C"s corners.)
-

Your remark about the finesse of violine making routines in sight of comparable rawness of guitar building has stuck in my mind over past days.

As a not really metaphysical mind, I deem the guitar as what would be a godly present to men if there was any such thing. ... With its simplicity that is in the same time capable of more musical tasks than any other instrument and even coming out ergonomical ( witty didactics provided ) despite such geometric / on first sight unorganic layout.

Next, it naturally is a matter of taste; depending on one´s upbringing I suppose: But to me, eventhough highly appreciating the beautiful sounds of so many other instruments, in the end the guitar leads again ...

With its comparably crude birth only proving the concepts unearthly perfection.
-

If the guitar was a person I suppose it would now either be asking me for my address to send over some endorsement check, or enviting me home for to meet all the Torres, Hauser, Barbero, Fleta, Rodriguez and lesser known but outstanding wooden relatives.

Which is not to say that cheapos weren´t good enough to represent that family.

Is there another, not guitar-like, instrument whichs cheap specimens can yet be sounding as good as many lousy guitars already can?

( I am thinking: Maybe sometimes harmonicas, ... or flutes?)

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 14 2012 13:32:18

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

There will be no final sanding of the top. But yes, some final scraping. You use very little sandpaper when building a violin and standard esthetics for a handbuilt instrument call for a top that is not touched with sandpaper. Then you get what is called a cordure finish, which is not totally flat and which takes out the grain of the spruce. This gives a very lively appereance as opposed to the perfect sanded and polished factory violin.

Guitars have their difficulty and I dont think you can directly compare the building of different instruments, but its logical that flettop instruments are a lot faster to build than carved instruments

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 14 2012 13:42:53

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

Now this is a very interesting tidbit to me!
- Which I can imagine to influence my future judge and taste.

Eventhough I can´t see the meachanical bakground yet.

Unlike for instance with the advice to better file than cut one´s finger nails. In that case I suppose separation of the nails layers through scissors / clippers pressure will be omitted / allowing a smoother edge.

However, how would woods grain see a difference between scrapig and sanding?
Trying to envision I see both layers of annual rings affected by a scraper, just like under sandpaper.
Is the idea that the blade despite even level will be taking away more of the softer summer ring, or what to imagine ( if you got the time, please )?
Or rather that the softer tissue for some reason ( touched cells sealed by pushed in sanding dust?) won´t be shrinking anymore after it´s been sanded?

Thanks in advance!

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2012 14:10:59

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

The tech thing is that spruce grain has a soft summer part and a hard winter part. When scraping with a scraper that is not to sharp, you cut the hard (dark) part and compress the soft part. The compressed part raises again and then you have this cordure texture which is a bit like this kind of cloth used for trousers, shirts, whatever, which has a stripy feel but only one color. I dont know the word in English. In Spanish its 'pana' and in danish its 'fløjl'

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2012 16:18:49

ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

Corduroy is the word. That is absolutely beautiful, Anders - I need to catch up on this thread later tonight when I'm not working.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2012 16:51:18

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

Wow, missed those latest pictures. It's so close!! Can't wait to hear/see the finish product. I've been following since the beginning.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2012 17:02:26

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

The tech thing is that spruce grain has a soft summer part and a hard winter part. When scraping with a scraper that is not to sharp, you cut the hard (dark) part and compress the soft part. The compressed part raises again and then you have this cordure texture which is a bit like this kind of cloth used for trousers, shirts, whatever, which has a stripy feel but only one color. I dont know the word in English. In Spanish its 'pana' and in danish its 'fløjl'

Thank you, Anders. Once again interesting, that detail on the not too sharp scraper!
-

I think Donovan had a song where the refrain went somehow about corduroy. Since then the term always sounds melodical to my ears.

In German it is "Kord", -and the former synonymous for "boring" ways of outfit. ( At least during the era when imitation leather was chique. hehe

)

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2012 17:37:30

estebanana

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Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

Did you make the arching a bit higher under the fingerboard? I would like to see the back arching if you have pictures.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2012 20:04:56

Anders Eliasson

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RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

Stephen.. I just tried to make the arching as close to what Strobels book says. And that was difficult enough. There are some pictures of the back earlyer in this thread.

Should I make the arching higher under the fingerboard. Its a Strad model (not copy)

Corduroy.. sounds good. Is that the name of that cloth as well. I like the danish word for it ´fløjl´. Its true its the cloth that is considered very unhip. A main image of the "soft" man of the 70th. You know the one with long hair, big beard and big metalic glasses. No face at all. Just hair and glasses. (and maybe a pipe)
Women always liked him, but always ended up running away with the macho.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2012 20:45:32

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

quote:

Corduroy.. sounds good. Is that the name of that cloth as well.

That is the cloth as well. Some people used to call them "whistle britches", cus they whistled when you walked. Britches is a southern word for pants.........

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2012 21:35:11

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to gbv1158)

So britches full of stiches means a set of pants that have been repaired many times??? Its the name of an irish polka.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2012 7:24:37

tijeretamiel

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Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: Building violin no. 1 (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Enjoying this thread Anders.

Had a look at your blog and saw the first post for Guitar 101. Look forward to seeing the progress of that instrument too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2012 12:28:08