RE: So what is the mythology about Sherry Brenner?

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RE: So what is the mythology about Sherry Brenner?

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Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to a_arnold)

Pale blue edge doesn't ring a bell to me. In my 1978 flamenco Ramirez the 1A mark is just a (hand)written additive. At precent day the guitar is at my fathers place because jude to his age (almost 80) he is the obvious one to enjoy it's incredible playability. If i remember well the 1A mark is (hand)written in the left corner of the main label (left of 1882) On your photograph it would be lurking in the dark. I'm sure you can find yourself lots of labels on various dealers sites.

I'm not quite sure what to picture by a relieved bass-side fingerboard. The ones we disliked had a fingerboard that tapers off to the bass side which made them very hard to play.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 12:46:47

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

http://www.guitarsalon.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-9722.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 12:50:49

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

Generally speaking, the pale blue label border indicates a 1a model but I have seen a few with a 2a model designation and others with none at all. The usual 2a label had a red border and was printed on a different color of paper.
Ramirez didn't use model designations prior to 1967, the same year they began using the extended label with the lower section showing a serial number and a signature, in this case the signature of Jose Ramirez III.
The model designation would be in the area covered by the gold sticker on the lower section of the label. These were usually handwritten but occasionally stamped. An earlier version, which was more or less the equivalent of a 2a model, had the smaller pre-1967 style label but with a gold border and the first letters of the wording of the label text, but not the "Jose Ramirez" name, printed in red.
The initials of the worker who assembled the guitar were usually two letters (sometimes three) enclosed in a circle and more or less centered on the foot. The initials "PC" were indeed used by Pedro Contreras Valbuena and, at least according to the information provided on the Ramirez website, by Cayetano Alvarez Luna. I've never seen the initials divided and stamped in the way shown in the photo. This guitar may well have been assembled by CAL and stamped this way to distinguish it from those assembled by Pedro Contreras Valbuena.
Just as a point of information, Pedro Contreras Valbuena was not related to Manuel Contreras.

And a word of warning....don't try removing those gold stickers yourself. They have a very tenacious adhesive and after many years they can be extremely difficult to remove without serious damage to the label itself. I you really want to get rid of them I'd suggest talking to a good paper conservator. A local museum can probably direct you to one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 13:14:48

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

As it turned out my Ramirez is from 1977 (not 1978) and the 1a is on the second label in the corner right below, indeed the exact place were that dealer sticker is. It is written classe 1a.

I'm not sure the guitar you posted is originally intended to be a flamenco guitar. The flamenco guitars of the late 70's that i met over the years seem to have a very distinct color (jude to the woods involved). I have now idea of the color of the early models. The color of your guitar looks quite similar to that of our 1962 classical ramirez. The label may be an indication. Mine has a regnr. in the range of 10.000>. The 1962 classical ramirez of my father does not have a second label nor a reg.nr. nor a class 1 a mark. That was a later invention.

If the guitar feels right to you it doesn't matter if it was initially intended to be a flamenco guitar or not. Like i said, Sanlucar plays the classical model as well. Just make sure it plays and sounds well. The classical ramirez of my father sounds excellent when you play it yourself but makes no impression at all to listeners at close range. But if you take some distance you can experience the same excellent sound as the player itself. So it is an excellent guitar for a concert hall (both the player and the back rows can enjoy it's superb sound) but not a good guitar for listeners at close range like students, friends and family. Since every guitar is different i advise you to try it out in various situations preferably with the help of a friend with capable hands and ears.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 13:55:35

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

I'm not quite sure what to picture by a relieved bass-side fingerboard.

Eric,
I'll post a pic when the guitar arrives if I can get the length of the fingerboard in focus. Basically, imagine a normal flat fingerboard, and then plane or sand off a right triangular wedge on the bass side between the 12th fret and the soundhole. The right angle is at the bass end of the 19th fret. The 2 legs of the right triangle are the 19th fret itself and the edge of the fingerboard between the 19th to the 12th fret. The hypotenuse goes from the treble end of the 19th fret to the bass end of the 12th fret.

It is not a big effect -- maybe a millimeter removed at the 19th fret, tapering to nothing along the hypotenuse.

The advantage: lower action; all the other strings can be set closer to the fingerboard without causing buzz in the bass strings, which is where buzz happens.

The disadvantages are 2: it makes the action higher on the bass side, but we rarely fret above the 12th fret on the bass strings anyway, so that is a small price to pay for overall lower action. Also, it presents a minor problem in setting frets 12-19 because they bend slightly over the angle caused by the hypotenuse. To some extent, this is relieved by sanding to round over the hypotenuse to turn the angle into a gentle curve. The fret wire bends very easily to conform.

The overall effect when looking down the surface of the fingerboard is that the surface appears to twist so that the 19th fret is not in the same plane as the 1st. Non-luthiers sometimes wrongly call this a "twisted neck". The neck is actually straight, and the glue surface between neck and fingerboard is a flat plane. Only the fretted surface of the fingerboard twists.

I've been told that quite a few luthiers have copied this concept but I don't know their names. It is a lot of trouble to go to, though, and not many guitarists even notice the subtle improvement.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 14:05:42

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

ORIGINAL: C. Vega

Not every player has huge gorilla hands like Segovia had.

This is a common misconception. Segovia's fingers were very large but not long. There's a book (title I can't remember) about him with a life size picture of his hands and there's nothing extraordinary about them. My hands for instance are substatially larger and my fingers are longer. His remarkable facility on the high action and long scale Ramirez guitar is a source of amazement to lots of classic guitarists.

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 14:12:32

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

Could somebody sum up in 1 sentence? =)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 14:12:47

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

I've never seen the initials divided and stamped in the way shown in the photo.

Eric,
What you say about the about the stamped initials being paired in a circle helps a lot. Looking closely at my posted photo, it is clear that the P and the C are both off-center in their circles. It looks to me like there was a PC in each circle, but it was stamped twice. The rounded edge of the foot cause the P to be absent on the left side, and the C to be absent on the right side. Why it was stamped twice is a mystery. I suspect that either Pedro Contreras or Cayetano Alvarez did that to distinguish his guitars from the other's. Maybe one was an apprentice of the other. Does anyone know what years they were working for Ramirez? Which one started first?
Tony

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 14:21:30

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Could somebody sum up in 1 sentence?

Twisted fingerboard surface lowers action.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 14:24:47

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

Twisted fingerboard surface lowers action.

Ah Thank you!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 14:28:54

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

This is a common misconception. Segovia's fingers were very large but not long.

But they were fat, and that seems to be (in part) what helped him get that amazing tone.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 14:43:15

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

This is a common misconception. Segovia's fingers were very large but not long.

I can second that. I saw him in concert and his fingers were thick (probably because they were muscular and quite strong), but not long. In fact, I would describe his fingers as surprisingly stubby -- probably their thickness made them look stubby. I have read that the wider fingerboard of Ramirez guitars is a concession to the girth of his fingers.

I also seen Sabicas in concert and his fingers were similar -- maybe not quite as thick as Segovia's but not long.

I'm one of those people with long spidery fingers. Plenty of reach, and people who compliment my playing assume my reach is a major factor that accounts for my playing, but I don't really think it makes a significant difference. I think strength is a much more important factor.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 15:13:37

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

I'm not sure the guitar you posted is originally intended to be a flamenco guitar.

I should have posted overall pics. It has pegs and a cypress back and sides, and a golpeador, all original.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 15:19:49

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

relieved bass-side fingerboard

I have a theory about Sabicas and that Ramirez fingerboard, which, incidentally, also has wider string spacing.

Theory:

Lower action obviously makes for faster playing, but the relieved bass side also allows you to push the guitar more without buzz. This contributed to Sabicas' strong punchy sound, even at fast speeds. It sounds like he's playing a guitar with high action very fast.

Wider string spacing also allows the player, when pushing himself, to sacrifice some precision for greater speed.

I could be wrong about this. My teacher (Carlos Ramos) played a Santos Hernandez and a Ramirez, and both had high action setups. He just had strong hands.

Incidentally, I recently learned that Ramos was Sabicas' first choice as a duet partner, but Ramos, with characteristic modesty, declined the offer on the grounds that he wasn't up to it. So Sabicas turned to Mario Escudero, and the rest is history. I suspect that Ramos (a student of Ramon Montoya) thought Sabicas' playing was just too far outside the mainstream. Certainly Ramos was a modest man, but he had no reason to be. Maybe he just didn't want to be anyone's "second guitar".

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 15:34:34

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: C. Vega

Not every player has huge gorilla hands like Segovia had.

This is a common misconception. Segovia's fingers were very large but not long. There's a book (title I can't remember) about him with a life size picture of his hands and there's nothing extraordinary about them. My hands for instance are substatially larger and my fingers are longer. His remarkable facility on the high action and long scale Ramirez guitar is a source of amazement to lots of classic guitarists.

I have a copy of that book. It is entitled "The Segovia Technique," written by an old friend of mine, Vladimir Bobri, who was the president of the original New York Society of the Classic Guitar when I was a member in the seventies.

Bobri and Segovia were very good friends, and this book is the only one that Segovia personally worked on with the author. It does indeed have numerous very close up photos of Segovia's hands and fingers.

Bobri tragically died in a fire, rushing back into his house to try to save some sheet music and books.

Ramon

_____________________________

Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 15:41:08

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

Incidentally, I recently learned that Ramos was Sabicas' first choice as a duet partner, but Ramos, with characteristic modesty, declined the offer on the grounds that he wasn't up to it. So Sabicas turned to Mario Escudero, and the rest is history. I suspect that Ramos (a student of Ramon Montoya) thought Sabicas' playing was just too far outside the mainstream. Certainly Ramos was a modest man, but he had no reason to be. Maybe he just didn't want to be anyone's "second guitar".

Just to be clear, playing duets with another player does not make one a "second guitar." Mario was never "second guitar" to Sabicas when they played duets. You only have to listen to their duets to see that.

Carlos Ramos was a monster virtuoso. If he declined Sabicas' offer, it would not have been from fear of being second guitar, but more likely as you said, due to his modesty.

Ramon

_____________________________

Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 15:58:31

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

quote:

This is a common misconception. Segovia's fingers were very large but not long.

But they were fat, and that seems to be (in part) what helped him get that amazing tone.

I guess one of his "secrets"was that he prevailed sound over interpretation. Every guitar has notes that sound very well on it and notes that doesn't. The good ones he tended to give his fullest attention, the bad ones were often neglected. For Segovia the distinction between important and less important notes seemed to be less linked to their musical function as to the question "can i make this note sing". As a result i can only enjoy him in an historical context.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 16:11:34

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

I guess one of his "secrets"was that he prevailed sound over interpretation. Every guitar has notes that sound very well on it and notes that doesn't. The good ones he tended to give his fullest attention, the bad ones were often neglected. For Segovia the distinction between important and less important notes seemed to be less linked to their musical function as to the question "can i make this note sing". As a result i can only enjoy him in an historical context.

With all due respect, this is a preposterous assertion.

Ramon

_____________________________

Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 16:55:20

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to a_arnold)

a_arnold,

Pedro Contreras Valbuena first worked for Ramirez under Jose II from 1951 until 1956 when he was lured away by the guitar manufacturer DiGiorgio and moved to Brazil. He spent several years there also working for Giannini. He eventually returned to Spain and was re-hired by Ramirez III and became the shop foreman after Paulino Bernabe left to open his own shop in 1969. When Ramirez started downsizing operations in the 1980s, Pedro went out on his own and sometimes worked in collaboration with Arcangel Fernandez. He also taught the craft to his son, Juan Pedro.
Pedro passed away in 2007 at the age of 70.

Cayetano Alvarez Luna (b. 1936) began his apprenticeship with Ramirez in 1960. I couldn't find any information about when he left but I think that he stayed with Ramirez until he retired. He never had his own shop.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 17:48:41

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prominent Critic

quote:

I guess one of his "secrets"was that he prevailed sound over interpretation. Every guitar has notes that sound very well on it and notes that doesn't. The good ones he tended to give his fullest attention, the bad ones were often neglected. For Segovia the distinction between important and less important notes seemed to be less linked to their musical function as to the question "can i make this note sing". As a result i can only enjoy him in an historical context.

With all due respect, this is a preposterous assertion.

Ramon

I agree completely. Like him or not Segovia was an absolute master of the classic guitar and to my ears his playing was the more musical than anyone else.

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 18:12:38

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

Pedro Contreras Valbuena .....

....Cayetano Alvarez Luna (b. 1936) began his apprenticeship with Ramirez in 1960. I couldn't find any information about when he left but I think that he stayed with Ramirez until he retired. He never had his own shop.

Wow! C. Vega, that is great to know! Thanks! Where did you find this info?

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 20:04:48

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to C. Vega)

Any thoughts on how to determine which one of these 2 guys I might have?
Hypotheses:
(1) they both used the same stamped initials because both were working there at the same time, one working under the supervision of the other. "PC working under the supervision of PC" . If Pedro was the shop foreman, that would indicate I have a Cayetano.
(2) The second or junior PC would be Cayetano Alvarez. Surely the senior "PC" would have put his initials once in the center in a single circle. Which would mean I have a Cayetano.
(3) Pedro Contreras started using a double stamp when Alvarez started using the same initials.
(4) I'm out of ideas.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 20:31:34

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

a_arnold,

I've been collecting (actually "accumulating" is probably a more accurate term in my case) books, catalogs, pamphlets, etc. on classical and flamenco guitar (and a number of other things as well) history and construction for a lot of years and as a result I have a fairly extensive reference library. I've also been to Spain a number of times and have visited the workshops and talked at length with many guitarreros. The information about Cayetano came from Luis F. Leal Pinar's book "Guitarreros de Madrid" (Madrid, Ediciones Dulcinea, 2008) and the info about Pedro from the same book and several other sources.

The foremen in the Ramirez and other workshops (though not necessarily in the bigger factories) in Spain usually aren't just supervisors but also hands-on workers. When the guitar you supplied the photos of was made, it's possible that Paulino Bernabe was still the foreman at Ramirez.
Every "PC" and every other initial stamped Ramirez guitar I've seen has had the initials in a circle placed in the center of the foot.
Your guitar may well have been made by Cayetano but it strikes me as odd that they just didn't give him his own stamp. I've never seen another Ramirez guitar stamped that way.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 20:59:30

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

it strikes me as odd that they just didn't give him his own stamp.

It strikes me as odd too. I could picture him going to his supervisor (if it was P. Contreras) and saying, "I don't have a stamp -- what should I do?" and I can imagine Contreras saying "Use mine" but even that doesn't make much sense.

I have found sources that say Cayetano also used "#2" stamped "near the neck" but I'm not sure exactly where that is supposed to be. When the guitar arrives I will use a mirror to look more carefully.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 21:16:36

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to a_arnold)

Sometime in the 1970s Ramirez stopped using initials and went to using numbers that were stamped on the underside of the top below the fingerboard extension. I doubt very much that you'll find a number on your guitar. They stopped doing this as well after a few years. I think they came to the realization that it was all kind of silly since their guitars were, and continue to be, the work of many pairs of hands. I have a copy of FRETS magazine from 1980 that contains an in-depth interview with Jose Ramirez III. In the interview, Ramirez fully explains how guitars were made in his shop and some of his reasons for doing things the way he did. They were most definitely not made from start to finish by one person.
That's still the case today, perhaps even more so. Since 1993 Ramirez has farmed out all of their finishing work. No finishing is done in house but at the time of the Ramirez III interview it still was. This information was given to me by Amalia Ramirez when I interviewed her via e-mail for an article I wrote for the September, 2004 issue of Acoustic Guitar magazine.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 21:20:32

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prominent Critic

quote:

I guess one of his "secrets"was that he prevailed sound over interpretation. Every guitar has notes that sound very well on it and notes that doesn't. The good ones he tended to give his fullest attention, the bad ones were often neglected. For Segovia the distinction between important and less important notes seemed to be less linked to their musical function as to the question "can i make this note sing". As a result i can only enjoy him in an historical context.

With all due respect, this is a preposterous assertion.

Ramon

I agree completely. Like him or not Segovia was an absolute master of the classic guitar and to my ears his playing was the more musical than anyone else.

Segovia himself wanted to rescue the guitar from what he called those barbaric flamenco guitar players. He simply could not understand how anyone could treat a guitar like that (dis)regarding the beautiful sounds he helped discover. Segovia himself was the prime ambassador of that new sound and at the time second to none. But from a modern point of view i think he was to preoccupied with producing the best possible sound, like it was blasphemy to deny the audience any less. Even many of the modern day classical guitar players tent to favor sound over rhythm and they are already more balanced than Segovia. Historically speaking his tonal preoccupation was quite understandable, one obviously favors to play with his latest toy, especially one as breathtaking as that. When echo was introduced in popular music it also was way overdone at first. And when flamenco discovered echo (years and years later) they suffered the same evolution despite way better examples elsewhere, examples Segovia never had. Personally i find it very hard to enjoy him, but that doesn't mean i don't appreciate his huge contribution to the art of guitar playing. And that's way more credit than he ever gave flamenco.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 23:02:39

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

And that's way more credit than he ever gave flamenco.

He wrote a glowing endorsement of Victor Monge (Serranito).

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 23:08:26

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

information was given to me by Amalia Ramirez when I interviewed her via e-mail for an article I wrote for the September, 2004 issue of Acoustic Guitar magazine.

Is that interview available anywhere? I'd love to read it. And any other resources you might recommend on Ramirez.

Tony

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2012 23:22:52

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to Erik van Goch)

Tony,

The e-mail interview with Amalia is long gone and I don't know if the magazine has any back issues with that article still available but there is a copy of the magazine up for grabs on the big auction site. It's on the second page of the "Ramirez guitar" listings.
Most of the stuff about Ramirez that I've seen in print has been more fluff than substance. There's a lot of misinformation out there, particularly on internet forums, a lot of it based on the **** that Jim Sherry spewed over the years.
Amalia's book is a pleasant enough read and has a bunch of pretty pictures but it's not something I could get my teeth into at all.
When I wrote my article I was asked by the magazine editors to keep it relatively light and simple and not to get too involved with technical details, etc. as the magazine was trying to appeal to a general readership, not just a few rabid classical/flamenco guitar junkies. They managed to make a few editorial screw-ups on some details between the time I approved what was supposed to be the "final" edited version and when it actually went to press. Nothing really major but still a bit annoying.
Amalia used parts of my article in her book.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2012 0:12:45

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: So what is the mythology about S... (in reply to C. Vega)

So, new question: There are a few guitar shops here in Tallahassee, Florida, and some carry new Ramirez guitars. They are awful. Heavy, dead, thickly spray coated with a polymer finish, overpriced, and they have a weak parody of the old Ramirez headstock. I haven't examined the label but I suspect Chinese labor is involved.

Are these representative of Ramirez's production since Amalia took over? Do they still produce anything like Jose III's quality? Or is this the only thing they make now? In other words, has the name been debased?

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2012 2:33:07

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