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RE: I don't play Flamenco   You are logged in as Guest
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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to ToddK

quote:

Maybe suicide is a good option.


Am just watching an episode of The Simpsons on TV right now and Homer goes into this record shop called "Suicide Notes....(formerly known as Good Vibrations)".

aHaHaHaHa!

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 17:10:24
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1789
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ricardo

i'm getting there slowly, trying to compose an album's worth of material and solidify my technique which is still far from good enough...
and it'll never be good enough i guess...

i started out wanting to be the next paco de lucia, and i don't see any reason to alter my goal, even if it never happens...i want that kind of technique, compositional skills, sensibility musically, being able to work with others, etc...meanwhile i have a lot of fun with flamenco, interacting with flamencos, teaching some, learning from others...
and i can't stress enough how much being on this foro has helped me on the way!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 17:12:53
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to n85ae

quote:

Hmm ... Actually you are right, guess just the way you said it. Today is
supposed to be hottest day in Chicago recorded history, and I live here,
so you can understand my grumpiness :)

True, 99.9% of us will suck at it forever, but keep on trying. :)

Jeff


Jeff you are so welcome man. From grumpy guy to grumpy guy. I love you. haha ;)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 17:15:26
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Kalo

quote:

Seriously, I think there are people on this forum who play really good.

Kalo, its all relative to a point of reference, in terms of how good is good or how bad is bad and we all have different reference point which keeps on changing over time.

I totally agree with Ricardo and Doit!

I realize how much I suck and I am not happy at all with my playing. I hear my flaws and I can kind of get insulted when someone tells me that I am good player honestly. instead, what I really want to hear is criticsm so that I can improve.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 17:20:20
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to clevblue

quote:

99.9% of the people who try, fail at flamenco. That means you will probably fail.

Way to go man and bring the whole world down ....I prefer to go with Homer Simpson ...""If something's hard to do, the it's not worth doing."..........


Its not the failing its the journey on how to get there that is good , once you can do it you will loose interest ...luckily this will not happen so to most of us , ( except Ricardo who has 'apparently , Mastered , Flamenco "....

Anyway moving on , welcome here and as you get used to the site you will find not only lots of things to do but lots of people to advise you ., just dont ask me about tremolo and we'll be OK


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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 17:35:15
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to El Kiko

Funny thing about tremolo...

I can do p-ami but if I do the p-iami there's no way I can play it. If I trick my mind into thinking pi-ami, it's ok until I get conscious about the fact that Iam doing something that I cant do
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 17:42:24
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to El Kiko

quote:

ust dont ask me about tremolo and we'll be OK

oh and dont listen to those who make something sound like impossible to do. it maybe hard but not impossible, and dont forget that what is hard to you might be easy for someone else and viceversa. I used to be afraid of tremolo because I was listening to people like him, but guess what? NOW I LOVE IT!!!
one thing is: stay positive and patient, it will come

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 18:13:39
 
Derek Woulds

Posts: 30
Joined: Jun. 23 2011
From: Suffolk

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M

Since I have been on this forum I have come to the conclusion that Flamenco must be one of the most analysed art forms on the planet! Does anyone play Flamenco just because they enjoy it? Even most of the "big name" players look deadly serious most of the time (With the exception of Moraito Chico). Dare I say lighten up a bit and enjoy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 18:57:47
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 865
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M

My theory is that the longer people suck at something they really want
to do, the more they analyze it trying trying to find the magic blue pill
so they can transcend into being good.

I see it that theoretician's of guitar, are people who are close to being
good, but can't quite get there, and they're scratching frantically for the
answer. But they don't have that gift from god that some people have.
So they're perpetually frustrated

Then along walks the guy with the skill, and he just does it naturally. I
see this a lot in my other hobby which is flying. Lot of the same thing,
endless discussion about how to do something better. Which is all
interesting, but in the end you either have a feel for an airplane, or
you don't. You can discuss stall speed, angle of attack, etc, etc, and
still fly like crap.

Guitar same thing, Flameco since it's hard even more so.

Jeff

quote:

Since I have been on this forum I have come to the conclusion that Flamenco must be one of the most analysed art forms on the planet! Does anyone play Flamenco just because they enjoy it? Even most of the "big name" players look deadly serious most of the time (With the exception of Moraito Chico). Dare I say lighten up a bit and enjoy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 19:14:26
 
Kalo

 

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

I see it that theoretician's of guitar, are people who are close to being
good, but can't quite get there, and they're scratching frantically for the
answer. But they don't have that gift from god that some people have.
So they're perpetually frustrated


So, how do you know you have that gift from God

Do you assume you have it if you are playing like Paco De Lucia, or Tomatito, Vincente after a year or two?

I had this discussion with a professional drummer (excellent one) who also teaches and he talked to me about his students.

He comes across what he calls "natural" as they get it quick, but, also the ones who don't get it quick but practice to get it...

The pro drummer mentioned a cool book called "Your Brain on Music" Interesting read as the author who wrote the book who is a musician says it's not always having a gift....

Is there any such thing as that?

What is your defintion as having "The Gift"?


Thanks

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 19:32:45
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Kalo

To be gifted is to have the focus to do whatever needs to be done in order to attain the desired result.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 19:57:11
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to kudo

quote:

because I was listening to people like him,

I am making a joke with a newcommer to ease him in , my tremolo is just fine kudo , stay away ......

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 19:57:32
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to El Kiko

quote:

I am making a joke with a newcommer to ease him in , my tremolo is just fine kudo , stay away ......

oh sorry man...i cant see your face behind the screen you know

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 20:01:23
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1789
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to n85ae

gosh, i know what youre talking about, ive had a student for the past two years, he knows all the theories etc, but i would be terrified if i ever had to sit next to him on a real plane...and should he suggest it i will decline...i will happily teach him in the simulator as long as he pays, but he's just completely hopeless...(i agree completely btw, some people are so good with their theories but can't play two chords straight...)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 20:02:55
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ

quote:

gosh, i know what youre talking about, ive had a student for the past two years, he knows all the theories etc, but i would be terrified if i ever had to sit next to him on a real plane...and should he suggest it i will decline...i will happily teach him in the simulator as long as he pays, but he's just completely hopeless...(i agree completely btw, some people are so good with their theories but can't play two chords straight...)

its just like people in the fields of math, physics and engineering. some are so theoratical that they cant do anything practically, while some others are the opposite. theres a qoute i once read somewhere, that the leaders of the future dont sit infront of the classroom.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 20:12:15
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 865
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Kalo

It's like pornography I know it when I see it.

quote:

What is your defintion as having "The Gift"?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 20:51:04
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to n85ae

quote:

It's like pornography I know it when I see it.


Florian has been studying this in depth, 6 hours a day over the last 7 years for his Doctorate. PhD.(porno)

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 21:10:54
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 865
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M

Oh, don't bring that up, he'll be discussing Donkey's and Midget's again ... My
mistake should not have mentioned porn ...

quote:

Florian has been studying this in depth, 6 hours a day over the last 7 years for his Doctorate. PhD.(porno)

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 21:20:35
 
Kalo

 

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

It's like pornography I know it when I see it.



Aaaah, so you know it when you see it, eh???

Well, saying someone is talented and gifted is a matter of someone's own reality! However pornography is a whole different thing

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 21:49:20
 
clevblue

 

Posts: 120
Joined: Jun. 29 2012
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to n85ae

And I thought you were all experts! Just shows you

I love Flamenco guitar, song and dance, all the energy and passion. As i said I've played guitar for years, folky fingerstyle stuff, banjo too, but I believe in the philosophy that you should live every day like it's your last and learn every day as if you were going to live forever. I'm not expecting an easy ride - now I've seen all the elements of technique and so on I'm more drawn to it than ever, and the more I listen to the more I get the buzz. So thanks for your interesting comments, I'm going to carry on buzzing.

I'm looking at this Yamaha to start out with, what do you think?
Yamaha NCX900R Electro Acoustic Classical Guitar

Flamenco porn, now there's a thought
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 22:02:12
 
Kalo

 

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M

Hi Clevblue,

I am semi intermediate, however, this Yamaha NCX900$ Electro Acoustic Classical Guitar isn't a flamenco guitar.

If I were you I would buy a Fransico Navarro Student Flamenco! It's not an electric classical guitar, but, it is a COOL flamenco blanca and for the money, you will get a lot of bang for the buck...

I sold mine 7 months ago, and now I am stuck with a Takamine Classical electric guitar worth more than the yamaha...

I DISLIKE that guitar so much...Accoustically it is wrong for flamenco guitar...Too much bass sound and no brightness at all..

Plugged in it sounds good, but, it still doesn't sound flamenco....

I am sure the yamaha NCX900R is no different...

Seriously, if you still are up for a classical electric, I would be willing to sell you my Takamine 132 SC!

I put a tapping plate on the takamine...The action is low... as well..

Here is a dude playing a jazzy waltz

Again, though, I would buy a fransico navarro....

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 22:22:14
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to kudo

quote:


99.9% of the people who try, fail at flamenco. That means you will probably fail.


totally the wrong thing to say to someone starting out ...that's what should make it too funny to offend anyone sure clevblue dosent know Doits dry and dark sense of humor ...but to me that only makes it funnier and with a lot more balls ...man took a huge risk for comedy...coming out of nowhere with the worst possible thing one could say when what the occasion calls for is encouraging words...i get it lol..its a huge risk...i've done it before...if they get it...the funniest thing in the world and they will lough and thank you for it...if they dont ...u look like an ass*hole or a weirdo lol its a RISK :-)))

ONLY DOIT ...lol...its brilliant

like when i tell beginners first time they dance in public out of nowhere and when they expecting me to encourage them.."dont f*ck up and humiliate the school and the teachers!!!" as a joke, they lough...it relaxes them


and i do think its a joke firstly in that special Doit kind of way... and if i may presume hes referring to something else not totally untrue...how many new guitarists and new members have been starting here over the years ?...how many are still here ?

how many new students does one get in a year..."oh i love it its my life" "i am serious about it, is just flamenco from me" 4 months down the track they nowhere to be found...i think that's where the 99.9 % hes referring to comes in...only .1 % of people starting it stick

20 new dancers start at the beginning of every semester...about 3 of them finish ...out of those 3 ...10% of one will be there in 2 years.....and 0.1% in 5 years


its a very raw lol personally i think very funny way to say it ( hehe i love it ) but i think 100% accurate...it shouldn't discourage one, should drive him/her to be the 1% that sticks even when it seems like u not getting anywhere because there will be those moments !....the only way to "fail" at flamenco is to stop trying and accept defeat...because you were either naive of its complexity ..or just dont love it enough to get through the uninspiring times where you dont feel like u making progress...

btw... i never thought id live to see the day where Todk is kind of telling Doit off that his comments are too raw lol

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 5 2012 22:41:18
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Florian

quote:

10% of one will be there in 2 years.....and 0.1% in 5 years


Hmm.. seems like no one is cleaning the toilet over there
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 0:02:13
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Sr. Martins



i think got carried away with using those % in my explanation ...i dont even know if it makes any sense...LOL

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 0:04:18
 
clevblue

 

Posts: 120
Joined: Jun. 29 2012
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

If I were you I would buy a Fransico Navarro Student Flamenco! It's not an electric classical guitar, but, it is a COOL flamenco blanca and for the money, you will get a lot of bang for the buck...



Thanks Kalo, that sounds just about right for me.


quote:

how many new students does one get in a year..."oh i love it its my life" "i am serious about it, its gonna be my life" 4 months down the track they nowhere to be found...i think that's where the 99.9 % hes referring to comes in...only 1 % of people starting it stick


Fair comment, Florian. Guitar has been my hobby for 40 years or so, so I'm not looking to carve out a new career, just explore something new, and I'm sure DOIT means well - and he's probably right. Don't worry I'm not a shrinking violet, I like a laugh.

It's all good advice and I'm grateful, I'm glad I came on here. Cheers all

When I can play something I'll post it on here, then you can really start to take the p*ss!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 0:05:21
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to clevblue

quote:

Guitar has been my hobby for 40 years or so


wow 40 years....well in that case there wont be any risk of you being one of this people starting that have unrealistic expectations of what it takes and how long it takes , that's a great advantage, i think you will do great

and that dosent even matter...was just trying to explain the 99% theory as i see it, because i find as raw as it is there is truth to it...i dont think anyone else other than the individual can determine where and how one goes...Doit can throw percentages jokes at you all day...its still u that has the final and only important say

really welcome we are very happy to have you here...

quote:

When I can play something I'll post it on here, then you can really start to take the p*ss!


we wouldn't...despite of this gone wrong ? joke (has it gone wrong ? i dont know depends of how many people laughed) we are all actually pretty nice and supportive here...and in those times we are serious

and Doit .....well when u know him and know what to expect of him, his sense of humor...you wont be shocked when u uploading a solea audio for feedback and hes talking about his toaster, hes a great player with a very dark and offbeat sense of humor which i love (hes either weird or theres genius in his darkens lol...depends of what you wanna see when you look...but he is consistent)


u need to go a loooong way back in the forum archives to find anything relevant he might have said i think we even had a joke at the end of the millennium about it..."Top most memorable moments of the last millennium" thread..."Doit once said something relevant"

(sorry Doit lol, i love u bro...but its true, its what makes you funny to me i dont want you to change, i still think theres comedic genius in your darkness)

dont you guys see lol for him to say anything "normal" here would just ruin his reputation ...id freak the f*ck out if i log on here one day and see him leave a normal , relevant comment on a thread...id think i was in the twilight zone or the wrong forum ...if i am not reading his comments 5 times over to try and figure out wtf it has to do with the subject...something is wrong....but......why am i telling you this....YOU KNOW THIS lol

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 0:09:55
 
Mark2

Posts: 1696
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M

Love this thread. Doit, you've missed your calling unless you write humor-Flo's right-your brilliant.

BTW, I agree. anything that is hard, 99% quit before obtaining even mid level skill.

Guitar teachers can certainly attest...............
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 1:14:54
 
shaun

Posts: 176
Joined: May 11 2012
From: Edmonton, Canada

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M

Failure in flamenco happens when you quit playing. Every day you keep playing, you succeed. One day at a time.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 3:26:52
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to shaun

quote:

But they don't have that gift from god that some people have.
So they're perpetually frustrated



sorry buddy i hate to disagree with you but i disagree with you...there is no "gift from god", there is no god for 1..(I am an atheist lol)......absolutely anyone and everyone has the same chance..... theres only those that have worked out a good learning system... work their asses off practicing and paying attention to those details or BS as you call it lol ....constantly analyzing themselves wondering what else can they do to get it better, leaving no detail about their playing or those they are trying to sound like unturned ...and theres those who dont....theres no gifts, no accidents ...and everyone gets the level of playing and expression they deserve and have worked for...



the final steps that really matter, that makes someone stand out not or captivate you with their playing or not besides firstly and your own taste of what you view as good... they are down to hard work, discipline, the mindset to believe it possible and push through, great listening and a lot of it.. attention to detail a lot of self analyzing and importantly a learning system that works for them...the least naturally musically gifted guy in the world could become the "best" guitarist in the world if he has all this things worked out.


but this is just my view of course...when i work hard and am disciplined in my approach and pay attention to detail "God " loves me...when i dont he doesn't lol., you get what you have earned, nothing more.....


if something is not working is cause someone has not done the right things...and even when they do it takes patience...but not because they cant do it

it has alot more with what you do and how you do it rather than god, or who you are

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 4:40:20
 
machopicasso

 

Posts: 899
Joined: Nov. 27 2010
 

RE: I don't play Flamenco (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

3 Playing a "piece" of sorts as a solo....just one 3-5 minute mix of falsetas and compas strumming counts as a huge achievment.

4 Accompanying a dance class without messing up the class...

list goes on and on.... but folks often get stuck at number 3 and don't move forward. It's ok but I think that's what doit is getting at by "fail".


I never would've thought that my having messed-up a dance class would count as progress in the eyes of a professional. Score!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone ever had the experience of trying to accompany a dance class for the first time and then listen as the dance instructor says, "I think we're going to use the CD for a little bit"?

Thankfully, it got better -- and I got better -- after that, and we eventually performed tientos, tangos, and bulerias on stage. But it's tough to learn dance accompaniment if you don't have a more advanced player under whose wing you can learn for a little bit.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2012 8:34:13
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