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RE: What is the top wood on this guitar?   You are logged in as Guest
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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to KMMI77

A few years ago Grisha tried out some high end guitars and also a Cordoba 45F.

To me the 45F held up well amongst the best of them.

So is it the guitar or the player?

Of course I wouldn't know which one FELT better to play.

Only Grisha would know that!

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=120911&mpage=1


cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 13:04:40
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Land of Daniel Boone

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Sean

japanese import? unknown wood? could it be.....spanish pine on a sherry brener guitar? i know he made those "spanish" classical guitars but a flamenco? if it s a sherry flamenco that guitar might be a collector's item.

shawn--cool beans for jaws. speaking of jaws, it is the anniversary of the jaws the movie and persently, out in the cape waters, 2 great white sharks are swimming around looking for lunch. so the big question is--what beach guitar to take? i say a chinese conde to whack the sharks or use as a flotation device just in case (the coast guard can spot conde/home depot orange from the sky.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 14:51:57
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

To those who feel I've not payed well enough to show the nuance of tones of this guitar I can only say I am sorry. If I were to unleash my full metal flamenco technique on you, not only you, but a host of virtuosic guitarists including Ricardo, Jason, Grisha, Don D. and undead zombies of Mavis del Castor Oil and Sabicasdelaplata would come unhinged.

My real falsetas are all too powerful, subtle and technically demanding for me to even waste my time showing them to you. Furthermore artists such as Paco de Lucia would writhe in agony and have long dark nighs of the tormented soul when he realized could not figure out my falsetas by ear and would have to relent and take personal lessons from me to master my mysterious yet potent toque.

And so I cannot present my utmost playing to you because I have composed most of the toque in hypertonalities with infrapolated super partials. Super partials are extensions of false harmonics and only audible to the canine world.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 16:54:54
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

So any final guesses? I'm going give the answer about 90 minutes early.

Get in your last guesses in the next 30 mins. please!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 16:57:29
 
Dave K

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 17:08:43
 
estebanana

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RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

15 more mins.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 17:14:26
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

15 more mins.


Um...is that American minutes, British minutes, Spanish minutes or Mexican minutes?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 17:38:48
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

And the answer is!

Labels reads:

Grade #3

"Garcia"

Parts of this guitar made in Spain-Japan-USA-Persia


...... final guesses?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 17:41:39
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

Imported by Sherry Brenner LTD.

Back and Sides of ...yup.... Ron's preferred cheap frame and tone wood, Ramin.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 17:43:06
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
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RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

top made of ....

PLYWOOD

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 17:44:09
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

Now I would like to hear everyones conclusions about what this means to them. And then I'll give my conclusion about how it played and why I did this.

( not about my playing or method of recording ect. but about the guitar )

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 17:48:07
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

If I were to unleash my full metal flamenco technique on you....................,


finally someone like me , i can relate to that , instead of all the showoffs around here........

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 18:05:31
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to estebanana

then we have a winner, prd1 was the first to mention it
2 ply
3 ply ??

does he win an entire plywood guitar and matching cejilla ???

well done anyway .........

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 18:07:48
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Back and Sides of ...yup.... Ron's preferred cheap frame and tone wood, Ramin.


Yay!...the good ol Ramin...
If you get on a low ebb with money at least you can still eat.

Good post, Stephen!

It's all smoke and mirrors unless you actually HANDLE the damn thing IMO.

Everybody thinks there is a fantastic, great sounding, low action, soft, loud, easy- to-play guitar that is hiding away somewhere in the world.

It's a fantasy IMO.

Give a beginner violinist a great Strad and it will sound crap.

Give a great guitarist like Grisha a mediocre guitar and he'll squeeze the best out of it.

But at the end of the day, his guitar of choice, as with Paco, Tomatito, Gerardo etc.. ALL the great players...will always be from a sole maker in a workshop somewhere.

Think about it.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 19:34:27
 
NenadK

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 19:49:53
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

My guess was based on "saying a wood that wasnt mentioned yet" lol

Ive had a ****ty "burgos" guitar that felt like it was made of paper and it had a midrange that sounded like that but overall, it played like crap.

I must say that Iam a fan of the "video recording device" sound. Almost all homemade flamenco guitar videos on youtube have that sound and I like it a lot. To me it bypasses the unneeded sounds from a flamenco guitar and you have that snappy pure sound even with crappy guitars.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 21:18:50
 
TANúñez

Posts: 2556
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to estebanana

Well I can't say it really means anything to me but I will say that it didn't sound half bad so a guitar made with cheapass materials can actually sound good.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 21:21:34
 
Dave K

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 21:30:23
 
Jeff Highland

 

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

This means you should not make any conclusions about the tonal quality of a guitar based on a ****ty recording, compressed on Youtube and played back through computer speakers. It is not reality.

Having said that, I am about to do some hopefully good quality recordings of two new builds for youtube recordings, it seems to work as a promotional tool.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 22:07:55
 
Shawn Brock

 

Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

The conclusion for me was that I didn't like the sound of the guitar. Others thought that it sounded pretty good, and I didn't, so who's wrong? No one... Everyone likes what they like and that's the long and short of it.

I was fooled completely, and that was partly because I never thought that any guitar like this one would have been worth the costs of repairs and I was banking on a high valued instrument. That's what made this so good and interesting. But again, that's just the way I see it. I also think that a loud guitar can be made from pretty much anything, but just because its a loud guitar don't mean its a good guitar. I chose cedar because it sounded like cedar to me...

It seems that in my experience that either a cedar top sounds good or bad with no in-between. It seems like spruce runs the gamut more. That's a hard statement to make though because few people have ever played more cedar flamencos than spruce. Its usually the other way around and perhaps I'm a victim of the lack of opportunity here.

I would talk the owner into chucking this one out and having you build him one... That's the other part of my conclusion...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 22:19:06
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Land of Daniel Boone

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to estebanana

estebanana--i believe the wood used for a garcia grade 3 is spanish pine. whether or not it is plywood is another story.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 22:59:03
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to keith

quote:

ORIGINAL: keith

i believe the wood used for a garcia grade 3 is spanish pine. whether or not it is plywood is another story.

I thought Spanish Pine was just salesman's way of saying Red Cedar. That was certainly the case with Ramirez guitars with "Spanish Pine" top wood. I doubt true pine would make an acceptable top.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2012 23:14:44
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

I figured from the context of several books that Spanish pine is a translation of Pinabete, and that is it an ambiguity of translation. It's an ambiguity that stems from a misappropriated cognate by associating "pina" of pinabete with Pine in English.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2012 0:40:17
 
nhills

Posts: 230
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: West Des Moines, IA USA

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to jshelton5040

I still have a "Spanish Pine" top that was purchased from Sherry Brenner some time in the early '70's. Grain you could use for a ruler, evenly spaced, and perfectly quarter-sawn - BUT, it's either the darkest cedar you'll ever see, or it's redwood! It's medium to dark brown.
Norman

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2012 1:39:31
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

My conclusion was pretty simple and one I learned from older guitarist friends in the past.

Plywood tops also season as they get older and at forty two years of age can sound not too bad. Maybe not complex or clear as solid wood, but the sound is there in a meat and potatoes kind of way.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2012 5:14:27
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to estebanana

ok good post!
You had us fooled.
My first guitar I made of plywood. It was pretty good: should have stuck with it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2012 6:35:03
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to estebanana

Estabanana is right and here is a bit more info on the subject of 'spanish pine" a wood that does not exist ...
Spanish pine is a mis-characterization of the Spanish word “pino abeto”. The literal translation of the term is “pine fir”. But pino abeto is really Canadian Cedar. Because of the translation glitch, many Spanish guitar makers now try to clarify the top wood as “Pino abeto o cedro de Canadá”, that is pine fir or Canadian cedar.

The mis-translation of ”pino abeto” as pine fir caused a number of American guitar makers and guitar companies in the 1960s and 1970s (not just Jim Sherry) to call the top wood “Spanish Pine”.
ole

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2012 9:08:34
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

My conclusion was pretty simple and one I learned from older guitarist friends in the past.

Plywood tops also season as they get older and at forty two years of age can sound not too bad. Maybe not complex or clear as solid wood, but the sound is there in a meat and potatoes kind of way.


I find old guitars intriguing. I have a friend who is a bit of a wheeler and dealer when it comes to guitars. Although being a guitarist himself, he doesn't really have the funds to deal in expensive guitars. Anyway, he started taking a few chances buying "only old" cheap guitars on ebay. Usually guitars that did not even list if they were ply, laminated or solid timbers. He just took a chance.

The funny thing is that nearly every guitar he picked was good. And some were outstanding. They were the sort of guitars that I'd see on ebay and think, that's going to be a piece of s***. Then my mate would come up to me and say, have a play on this guitar that i bought on ebay for $100. I'd play them and be shocked I learnt a lot about guitars from him doing that.

My first two guitars when i first started playing were cheap plywood guitars. I couldn't really play back then so i can't remember what they were really like. My dad never had spare money, so he never had an expensive flamenco guitar either.

Like all flamenco students I wanted a nice guitar. Even though i thought that i did, i didn't really know what a good guitar was. In Australia I found an old student conde for $240. After playing it a while, I sold it at a profit and used the money to get a luthier to make me one. It was a very nice guitar. Living in Australia i could only really compare it to other flamenco guitars that friends had or videos and recordings.

When i eventually went to spain, I went to every guitar maker i could find trying out and listening to the guitars. I had money saved up and i was ready to buy. I went from Madrid to Ubeda, to Linares, to Jaen, to Granada down to Malaga, then to Tolox, Rhonda to Cordoba and then Seville. After my first 6 months in Spain i had not yet found one that convinced me to part with the cash. Compared to the luthier made one that i already had, none really jumped out at me and gave me that i must have it feeling. I should have kept that guitar that i had at the time. The guy i sold it to sold it on recently and i had the chance to play it again. It is a great guitar. I didn't have the money to buy it back at the time. I know who has it though. Maybe one day i'll get it back.

Eventually i did buy some more expensive guitars. I made the choice based on how well i could play and what i knew at the time. And picked the guitars that for some reason just spoke to me.

What is interesting is that 10 years later, I now prefer to play my cheap and old guitar with laminated back and sides. It just never lets me down. It's easy to play. It does what i want it to every time without effort. It doesn't sound as pretty as my expensive ones but I love it anyway.

The response is fast and easy. Rasqeuados separate and respond easily at varying speeds of execution, as apposed to many guitars that only really respond well at one. You know that feeling of having to push it to the open sound? And having to play it that way every time?

Trebles that open up into that deep full sound when pushed tend to be slow to respond when played softly with relaxed technique. They may really open up and sing no matter how hard you push, but I notice that this can act as a hinderance requiring my technique to feel more tense. Especially when playing picado. The fast responding guitar does not need to be pushed to get the full sounding note. It says relax. If I get tense and force it, it gives out and tells me to relax again. Touch it lightly and it responds fast. The bases are also great and the guitar is balanced. I feel in control. It may be the best guitar i have owned.

Like you say, the sound is not as complex and clear as my solid timber guitars. But it has an abundance of what is important to me.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2012 10:31:17
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

Estabanana is right and here is a bit more info on the subject of 'spanish pine" a wood that does not exist ...
Spanish pine is a mis-characterization of the Spanish word “pino abeto”. The literal translation of the term is “pine fir”. But pino abeto is really Canadian Cedar. Because of the translation glitch, many Spanish guitar makers now try to clarify the top wood as “Pino abeto o cedro de Canadá”, that is pine fir or Canadian cedar.

The mis-translation of ”pino abeto” as pine fir caused a number of American guitar makers and guitar companies in the 1960s and 1970s (not just Jim Sherry) to call the top wood “Spanish Pine”.
ole



Hmmmmmmmm.... Pino abeto means spruce amongst spanish guitarmakers, cabinetmakers and other woodworkers. As with all popular names it can be discussed wheater its correct or not.

Look at this Spanish seller of tonewoods:
http://www.madinter.com/b2c/index.php?page=pp_productos.php&tbusq=1&ref=ref-65&md=1

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2012 12:04:56
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: What is the top wood on this guitar? (in reply to KMMI77

quote:

ORIGINAL: KMMI77
Then my mate would come up to me and say, have a play on this guitar that i bought on ebay for $100. I'd play them and be shocked I learnt a lot about guitars from him doing that.


be prepared to get lynched by the foro luthiers

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2012 12:51:42
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