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estebanana

Posts: 8548
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

taking time away 

I've been thinking the last day, you know this place has changed in some way. And I need to think about how and where it may be going. So I'm going to take a break for an undetermined amount of time and observe what happens. The changes have to do with a certain brand of egotism that happens when some people commission guitars.

The egotism comes into play because traditionally there was has been a way to ask a luthier to create a musical instrument work of art for you. It has been done with trust and with a discreet, but solid agreement between guitarist and luthier. Commissioning a work as a public statement has a show off air to it. It lacks modesty and personal connection. It's like saying look at me, I'm patronizing so and so. As a luther I find this a huge turn off. Not only is it embarrassing, but it really goes against the intimate trust one ideally needs to create sincerely for your patron.

I'm watching to see if it continues, or diminishes enough to put up with. The idea that one can call for information from luthiers with the intent of dangling a commission in front group and awarding it to the whom the dangler feels is the luthier who is the best lameculo disgusts me.

This discussion forum is devoted to discussing things related to making pieces of wood into guitars. Some of the fascinating topics include threads about why a hand cut rasp has a more satisfying and sure cut than a machine cut rasp. Or new news about products like which types of tuners that luthiers use. At it's best this forum is informative, humorous and fosters a group of luthiers with diverse personalities and temperaments to discuss these topics about luthery.

At it's worst this foro gets taken advantage of by people who want to glean information from luthiers without contributing or putting any work or thought into what they may be doing and asking. The changes or current state on the foro bring to mind formats like Craigslist or eBay. Along with inquiries about guitar making have come, to me at least, distasteful and destructive kinds of egotism and entitlement that is counter productive to talking about making guitars.

Not everyone will see this as an important point that is a part of the art of creating for another person. But then again there are a lot of brutish people in the world. Commerce is commerce, but guitar makers are not whores you can manipulate and be cruel to, to show how many guitars you can commission to satisfy your own ego.

I hope the foro continues to be purely about guitar making and does not turn into a commercial free for all for those who would pit guitar makers against one another to see if the competition gets them a cheap guitar. Because that is exactly where it is headed now.

E.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 5:51:48
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

Hi estebanana,

I can't say I've noticed all this negativity towards luthiers myself.
I think the tough economic times have cast a bit of a shadow over all our lives and is affecting everyone's outlook.

Ricardo has suffered the same sort of stuff over the years where folk will ask him detailed questions about technique etc and ask him to post a video clip to illustrate...but they would never think of booking any paid lessons or buying his CD.

I ordered a guitar from Anders a few years ago and just told him I wanted a negra and would leave all the details to him. Who was I to tell him his job?

I get the same sort of crap from customers who know a little bit about electronics telling me how to fix their equipment, sometimes telling me things like "I think it's just a faulty capacitor or diode somewhere or other".
I get cheeky now and say, "Oh thanks for the tip! That'll make the job MUCH easier..."
Or telling me, "I'm sure it's nothing much...you'll probably see the problem as soon as you open it up", implying, "I know this won't cost much to fix".
(I love when jobs like that turn out to be unrepairable! )

Even doctors are getting tired of folk coming into their surgery and telling them exactly what's wrong with them and what medication they require.."because they read it on the Internet".

The Internet has turned us all into cheapskate knowalls now with little respect for each others profession, trade or skill and always expecting bargain basement prices and is not something exlusive only to the members of Foroflamenco.

There is also a trend for customers to go into a store and waste the sales guy's time by looking at something, trying it out and asking heaps of detailed questions....then going home and ordering it from Amazon or Ebay.

The whole world has changed, not just the foro.

Just the way the world is now amigo!


cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 6:37:44
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

Stephen
Thats very sad news, but I totally understand you. I´m pretty close to do the same as you. I´m thinking things over for a day or 2. Just letting it all show by itself.

Ron, maybe you dont see things because you´re not emotianally involved in the luthier section and besides your kind of cynical attitude towards Stephens post, doesnt give me more energy to stay.
And finally, I think its about time that Admin talk together about how much indirect or direct publicity should be allowed in this section. I have my ideas, but I´ll leave it up to you guys to take decission just as I know that you´ll leave it all up to me to take the decission to stay or leave.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 7:19:58
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I hope the foro continues to be purely about guitar making and does not turn into a commercial free for all


The luthiery section is not the place to try and sell your guitars. Unfortunately this is happenning more and more and so its bound to become a commercial free for all.

Those who are selling, should post their pictues, videos etc in the 'classified' section and keep 'luthiery' for discussion of techniques, tools, wood etc

_____________________________

Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 7:26:24
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: taking time away (in reply to krichards

quote:

Those who are selling, should post their pictues, videos etc in the 'classified' section


Actually the Classified section was originally intended for members to advertise their own personal stuff free of charge and not for makers or guitar dealers to advertise new stock...ie not a commercial free for all.

However we are all interested in Flamenco guitars here, so where an "advert" has interesting or informative content or has been placed by a maker who has contributed knowledge to the forum, then we tend to turn a blind eye.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 7:43:27
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 730
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

I am not a luthier but I always read this section. Why? Over the (many) years that I was playing I found the need to change the kind of guitars I used to match changes that took place (increased strength in my hands, move from unamplified to amplified gigs, changes in my musical tastes etc). For most of these years I had no access to the kind of discussions you find in the luthier section here to help me understand the kind of compromises involved in achieving the best blend of qualities in a guitar. So players as well as starting luthiers are fortunate that some experienced lathers take the time to post here. Is it advertising? Of course it is, but I don’t mean talking about specific guitars for sale. I would always hope that luthiers have a vision of what they are trying to achieve, to talk to experienced players about their needs and exhibit passion and determination in their drive to make better guitars. If they share this with us it is the best kind of advertising. If they occasionally get grumpy who cares? Nobody has to read this section.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 8:15:52
 
Argaith

Posts: 479
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

Hi Estebana,

I agree with Ron, the whole world has gone crazy and much of it is due to the bad economical situation. When people struggle, their attitudes change and can often come across nasty and harsh.

Unfortunately, I have not had the honour of playing a guitar made by any of the luthiers on this forum. However, I have listened to the ones that are owned by other members and in my opinion you guys are all genius. I can’t even imagine how you guys put a few pieces of wood together and get such an amazing sound out of it! While each luthier’s creations look and sound different from the other’s, they are all masterpieces of art. In fact I don’t think that we have any bad luthiers here!

Unless the discussions are too technical for me, I enjoy reading them and I have learned a lot from you guys and take this opportunity to thank you all.

The matter of subliminal advertising has always existed and will continue to exist, especially now that there is not much business around. I don’t know whether or not it is possible to draw some guidelines (for administrators to comment).

I hope you feel better and change your mind and stay and contribute to this forum. I also hope that the situation will be better for us all.

A

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 9:16:32
 
Escribano

Posts: 6339
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: taking time away (in reply to Argaith

Point 7. of our Agreement:

You will not...

7. Advertise or offer to sell or buy any goods or services for any business purpose that is unrelated to the art of flamenco. However, the forum is not a free advertising platform and persistent advertisers, who do not contribute to wider discussions, will be removed. All promotion and advertising is at the discretion of the Administration.

I have warned a couple of distributors about their ads quite recently. Let me know what else you would like to see.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 9:31:54
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I hope the foro continues to be purely about guitar making and does not turn into a commercial free for all for those who would pit guitar makers against one another to see if the competition gets them a cheap guitar. Because that is exactly where it is headed now.


you mean about flamenco

i am sorry to read this, i wasent aware either of this kind of problems...why live ? if you all feel the same why not agree amongst yourselves that you will not allow yourselves to be taken advantage and turned against each other like this..theres more guitar makers here than the odd one guy trying to get the cheap guitar..

i mean you can live of course but you are giving up your space for no reason...i think you have the power to fix it...there will always be someone trying to take advantage....cant close up shop just because of it

perhaps you need to agree on a honorary code of ethics amongst guitar makers...whats fair, for you, for the guy that commissions the guitar...etc....you all do the same thing...you all have respect for what it takes, u all encounter the same problems and perhaps same frustrations...it is up to you to create your environment not the odd guy trying to get it cheap...he wont succeed if you guys don't allow him too and stand together, and agree on not undercutting each other

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 10:49:11
 
erictjie

 

Posts: 163
Joined: Apr. 11 2011
 

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

I have been in retail business for 17 years and it is getting harder everyday, consumers are looking for bargains and free stuff if they can get, but my rent and wages and expenses are sky rocketing. I don't blame my customers , but i have to find way to make a sale and profit. As Ron said customers are getting more 'wiser' these days. For you guy luthiers you must ADAPT TO change too,and be successful.whatever you read in this forum should NOT be taken too 'seriuosly' 'too personnel' . I deal with abou 700 customers everyday and have to face many colour everyday, but i don't take them in personnelly, otherwise i would have gone crazy. in other word human beings are selfish. it is all about ME!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 10:52:19
 
ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

Hey Stephen ~ I see your point and I'm glad you're speaking up. I think this kind of egotism and entitlement you're talking about is indicative of the way society has been going for many years, and it's easy at times to slip into these kinds of behaviors if you're not mindful of your actions. In a general consumer sense, we don't worry about the large company or faceless corporation that we're affecting when we comparison shop. Or by going into a store, taking a bunch of time from a salesperson and then going home to buy online. I'm glad to read your post because it should make people take pause and think about the perspective of the craftsman who is creating something personal and real for another person. A single person who is trying to uphold quality, old world styles of crafting that frankly we as musicians are lucky to still have available these days.

I'd like to think that most guys are not consciously and actively trying to pit luthiers against one another to get the best price, and I agree that in researching who you'd like to build your instrument you need to be respectful and somewhat discreet. I for one am glad that you've contributed so much to this Foro over the years. Before I commissioned my guitar with you, I spent a lot of hours digging through the archives on this Foro to learn as much as I could about the philosophies and such of each luthier here. You guys have contributed so much that I feel I was able to answer many of my questions through research instead of hounding you with endless questions. People need to think about how much time luthiers spend at a computer in this day and age. It's not right IMO! It's necessary to some degree I suppose, but we as customers need to add a good measure of faith to mix when commissioning an instrument.

I sincerely appreciate what you guys are doing and the traditions you're working to uphold. I hope that Stephen feels I've treated him with respect during our time working together.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 14:22:55
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13502
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

In that other thread the luthier challenge thing I proposed was a joke of course, but it was clear at that point folks getting bent out of shape over a couple of "guitar players" crawling out of the woodwork to stir up some **** regarding pitting guitar builders against each other. Sure, the luthier that ended up with the "commission" finally should have been like "oh I see what you are up to buddy, screw you I won't build you ****" or even better, build him a crap guitar on purpose and sell it. But it is pretty minor BS. Guitar players, real ones, will simply gravitate to good guitars...we don't care about your opinions and methodologies I promise. For sure the dirty laundry of "oh you jerk i called you about this the other day and bla bla bla" is not necessary on the open forum. Hell I can imagine if all the on goings of my local gigs got aired on on here!!!!

If it were me estebanana, I would just blow the whole thing off and keep talking about guitars. Prices don't matter interms of undercutting...you guys always jump on "factory" guitars and such, it's not a big deal. Just do your thing guys. I can't believe "guitar players" would choose a guitar based on a luthiers comments about how they build. For example, a while back Anders was talking up that ****ty Ramirez 1A classical of Juan Serrano and I was in shock cuz his guitars are WAY better than that!

If want to advertise my own guitar build on a foro I would simply say "wow guys my new guitar looks, smells, sounds and plays EXACTLY like a conde....come get em!!!".

About these cheaper luthier made guitars that sound amazing brand new...nothing you all can say that will convince me otherwise that in 10 years all those thin topped feather weight things are gonna implode.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 15:46:58
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 905
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

I haven't seen any changes in this forum at all. A question comes up and we sit down to answer. Occaisionally there is some heated arguements with some name calling and tantrums. Probably putting the OP off ever coming back. Mean while one of the guitar makers steps back and wonders why they bother. Hence the dwindeling numbers of us still here! I've only been here for 4 years but long enough to notice the luthier section starting to tire and become a little stagnent.

I don't mind seeing people show boating about who they have ordered from. I've seen enough people here say they have ordered an Anders to think that this site actually belongs to him. I've seen people here telling everyone that they have ordered from you and ordered from Andy! In the entire 4 years i've been here i've had one guy come to me for a refret! But it doesn't matter to me, it's not the reason I joined this forum and if you joined this forum to try and boost your own sales then you should not throw your toys out of the pram when it doesn't go your way. There is a guitar out there for everyone but not everyone will like one guitar for what ever reason.

I joined the forum so I could learn from others and in turn help those who have a question just as those have helped me. I do not and never will expect anyone on this forum to come and use my services. Even if I did take the time to answer a question about how long a piece of string is.

When it comes to advertising for luthiers on the forum I believe it should be strictly forbidden. Follow the example of the delcamp classical guitar forum. have a sub forum for self promotion where each of us can have a thread devoted to us promoting our selves. That way if people want to know who we are and what we are about they can go there and have a look. No more videos, pictures of recently finished guitars that may or may not be for sale in the Luthier section. Keep it clear for all amateur builders and players questions on guitar related questions.

Edit: I knew the Luthier comp was a joke hence my silver crown remark. If you all didn't figure that out.

_____________________________

Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 15:51:24
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

I hope its ok that I´ve cut your quote in pieces.

quote:

I've only been here for 4 years but long enough to notice the luthier section starting to tire and become a little stagnent.

When it comes to advertising for luthiers on the forum I believe it should be strictly forbidden. Follow the example of the delcamp classical guitar forum. have a sub forum for self promotion where each of us can have a thread devoted to us promoting our selves. That way if people want to know who we are and what we are about they can go there and have a look. No more videos, pictures of recently finished guitars that may or may not be for sale in the Luthier section. Keep it clear for all amateur builders and players questions on guitar related questions.


I more or less agree with what you say. But as always there´ll be some grey spots: example, Very soon I´m going to build my guitar number 100 and I was thinking of making a thread about its building here in this section. Should it be allowed or not? (It´ll be for sale!!!)
Maybe I´m the builders who has exploited the most this section and I´ve uploaded pictures of many guitars here. Most of them were already sold, but some were for sale. But it was not me who started uploading videos and pictures of every single guitar that I made. And maybe we´ve reached the point where we should consider when enough is enough.
I personally think that:
* guitars for sale should go into to classifieds
* Audio and video uploads into Audio and video uploads

Then we have the difficult question: Where should pictures of guitars we just want to show, which are not for sale and that we are proud of, be posted???

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 16:29:26
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: taking time away (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

For example, a while back Anders was talking up that ****ty Ramirez 1A classical of Juan Serrano and I was in shock cuz his guitars are WAY better than that!


I talked about that guitar because a client wanted one with the same kind of sound. I made it, it came out very nice, the client is very happy with it and I didnt post any pictures or videos of it.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 16:31:58
 
ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: taking time away (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

In that other thread the luthier challenge thing I proposed was a joke of course


Absolutely, I don't think that's what Stephen was referring to in his OP. And your post was not what I was referring to, either.

Anyway, I think this is an interesting discussion. In the end, I also just want a good guitar but I do actually care about knowing something about the luthier and how they work. That's just me. It's a lot of money to put out on faith if you haven't played a particular luthier's guitar, and I think it's a bit of a mental block to just say "do your thing" and let it be. I'm currently waiting on one of Stephen's Port Orford Cedar blancas, and I would like to think that I've been a good customer, respectful of his ability. I did try to give him a general idea of what I wanted using recorded examples of other guitars, but I felt like a bit of a D-bag doing so. But then, we have to communicate what we like somehow, right?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 16:41:15
 
orsonw

Posts: 1612
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: taking time away (in reply to Anders Eliasson

As a guitar player I really appreciate and enjoy all the luthier posts- amateur, professional, discussions, advertising- all of it.

I can see from this thread that there are commercial and personal considerations I don't fully understand but I hope the luthier posts continue.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 16:47:59
 
Shawn Brock

 

Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY

RE: taking time away (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
, but it was clear at that point folks getting bent out of shape over a couple of "guitar players" crawling out of the woodwork to stir up some **** regarding pitting guitar builders against each other. Sure, the luthier that ended up with the "commission" finally should have been like "oh I see what you are up to buddy, screw you I won't build you ****" or even better, build him a crap guitar on purpose and sell it. But it is pretty minor BS. Guitar players, real ones, will simply gravitate to good guitars...we don't care about your opinions and methodologies I promise. For sure the dirty laundry of "oh you jerk i called you about this the other day and bla bla bla" is not necessary on the open forum. Hell I can imagine if all the on goings of my local gigs got aired on on here!!!!


Stephen, hate to see you go Man, but you have to do what you think is best. As I said on the other thread, your craftsmanship and instruments speak for you, and I mean that in a great way.

Perhaps I should be the one to go, after all I started the thread. Ricardo has pointed me out here and seems to think that I have put all of you makers against one another. Not sure how I did that, or how me asking about general construction makes it my fault that people get ticked off at each other. I guess when I made the statement of I didn't know who was going to build me a blanca. Well that don't mean that I want luthiers bidding on a build, it just means that I hadn't decided which maker on my list I was going to go with. Perhaps it was also wrong of me to say that I didn't know who I was going to order from. I'll make a deal with you all now though. Which ever of you luthiers that Ricardo orders his next guitar from, I want a sister guitar made for me and my guitar can be made just after or before his.

I love the foro and am thankful to have it as such a worthwhile resource, but its not my life. I'll be happy to step aside if it will make the experience better for others.

Most of us get out of hand every once and a while, and it always ends in someone talking about leaving the foro. The sad thing is that those actions make others leave who had no involvement in the outbursts. They look at us who are in the middle of mud slinging and decide that they just don't have time to read through such a diatribe, and they are gone.

The luthier I chose to go with didn't get involved when the thread went off topic. That says a lot about him in my opinion. He stuck to the topic and when the topic went out the window so did he. He's a better and more mature person than me or lots of other members. And though Ricardo wishes it, I'm sure he won't build me "a crap guitar". That's just not how he operates. Its not the way any smart builder would operate...

Say the word and I'm gone.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 18:36:56
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

Shawn
You have the right to have your opinions, and you´re allowed to read things the way that makes you happy. But I dont agree... Here everyone gets involved. Some in a direct and hotheaded manner, some in an indirect talking between lines manner where you have to find all the little sarkastic hints turning everything upside down .
You didn´t start anything. Its been there for a while. It was just waiting for a detonator. And trust me... Its not over.

Fortunately I live in a country where the direct hotheaded way is not a problem, where its allowed to be direct and where its ok to laugh at one who gets hot headed and then after that invite him for a beer and a laugh. And fortunately the indirect cynical way is not very well accepted.
I like things to be like that. The other way gives you smellysweat underwear. And this you can find some of in the Luthiers section.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 19:10:42
 
estebanana

Posts: 8548
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

Shawn, I want it to be totally clear, I fired you as a customer, not the other way around. Don't get high and mighty with me about who YOU choose. Don't lecture me about maturity and decorum.

I choose not to work with you.

Now I'm really out of here.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 20:15:26
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1490
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

I hope nobody leaves and I'm not aware of anyone ever being voted off of this forum.

Shawn, there were a lot of arguments in the past and things have been calm for several years now. No need to offer to leave...

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 20:26:03
 
Shawn Brock

 

Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

Anders, I like the way you think. I have noticed in other cultures that people can argue and have heated discussions, and then just forget about it. Lots of us Americans tend to get our feelings hurt, or hold grudges to long. Lots of people see America as a promise land, but the culture is getting more complicated to live in every day.

Stephen, Stephen,... Stephen,
I also will be totally clear. Your work is great, your advice is great, and the contributions you make to the foro are also great. Some how I remember stating this more than once during my time on here...

I wasn't lecturing against or pointing the finger at you. I have included myself in the number of people who can get out of hand at times. I didn't include you or anyone else specifically. If you felt that in some way my post above was making an example out of you, I beg your forgiveness, because that was never my intention.

I for one just hate to see you go because you and another luthier disagree on the point of bridge placement, or because communications between us weren't the best that they could be. Your contributions have enriched myself and all members here and I wish you would stay around. Your an out of the box thinker, and we don't find those people everyday.

You can fire me as a customer all you want, I'm cool with that. I had told someone over 2 weeks ago that we were hung up in lack of communication and I didn't know how it all was going to end. I committed to placing an order for a blanca on Monday with someone, so your public firing of me is a little late. We'll operate under the assumption that you fired me as a customer a few weeks ago and because of moving your shop and finishing guitars, you just hadn't had the time to inform me yet. That seems like a possibility, and I'll buy that if that's what your saying. After all I'm sure not the only guitar player in the world...

You have a waiting list full of players, and most of them will be more helpful with spreading the word about your guitars than I could be. I'm sure Jason McGuire will love the new one your building him, and his playing it on gigs will also help grow your list. I'm not the player he is, and I never will be, so you'll always be better off with someone with his talents playing your guitars. So in short, no, you don't need my business. That is clear and I except it completely. Every gig I ever have played I worked just as hard if there were 10 listeners as I ever did for 10000 listeners. However I am willing to except just how many more skilled players are out there, and how their business is just flat out more important than mine. That's just a fact in life. So As I have already said more than once, I have no hard feelings with you at all.

I hope that you'll except this as a public and sincere apology for what ever it was that I unknowingly did to you. If you want to air any other grievances, you can feel free to contact me, or keep it here on the foro if that's what you wish.

*All remarks in this post are sincere and accurate to the best of my knowledge. The opinions expressed herein may not be shared/ or aren't necessarily a reflection of Foro Flamenco or its members. Many of the author's opinions on this subject are not demonstrated in this post.*
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2012 22:12:33
 
estebanana

Posts: 8548
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

The point at which I choose not to work with you was when you called and said you were ordering a guitar and then shortly turned around and solicited for someone to make you a guitar on the foro. I was busy, but you could not hold your mud and wait for me to get my shop together. I don't need my chain yanked, and it has nothing to do with the level of your guitar playing as I meet every single guitarist at their level with respect and dignity. I make the same kick ass guitar for professionals and home players alike ( and everyone in between). Please discontinue making assumptions about how I do things and how I feel, only I can do that.

I don't need to process this with you any further. Let the list get back on it's way. I'm out for a while because I need some space from this and you while I work.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 4:39:11
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: taking time away (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

* guitars for sale should go into to classifieds
* Audio and video uploads into Audio and video uploads

Then we have the difficult question: Where should pictures of guitars we just want to show, which are not for sale and that we are proud of, be posted???


Yes this is how it should be.
If you want to show some pictures of things you are proud of then ok, put them in the Luthiery section. The aim should be to ask an interesting question or make a point about that particular guitar. To inform people or to learn something new, to promote discussion.

_____________________________

Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 8:05:50
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

*So what if I make a building thread of my guitar number 100 which later will be for sale? Would it be to commercial? and even though a lot of people would find it interesting, should it then be forbidden?

* What about beginners? should they be allowed to upload pictures and make building threads? When do we consider them to start being commercial.

* Should I be allowed to make a building thread of my violin number 1 which will not be for sale? or should it go into off topic?

What we have her is a lot of greyzone....... The world is full of those and its very difficult to make rules that creates a socalled fair society without making it a boring society?

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 9:20:20
 
erictjie

 

Posts: 163
Joined: Apr. 11 2011
 

RE: taking time away (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Anders ,
iam looking forward to your #100 blanca, i want a special blanca
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 9:48:30
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: taking time away (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Anders....and all the rest of our regular Luthiers here, whether amateur or pro..

TRANQUILO! Take it easy guys.

Have you ever heard Simon or me complain about your guitar posts or pictures or adverts?

No. All the arguments and accusations are coming from between yourselves!

I used to think you guys were the sane lot around here, but now I realize you are all just as screwed up and frustrated as us guitarists!

Youz are all winding YOURSELVES up over nuthin' as far as I can see.

Man...start bustin open the Prozac and passing them around!! Jeez...

Happy building and posting anyway.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 9:59:07
 
erictjie

 

Posts: 163
Joined: Apr. 11 2011
 

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

iam not a great guitarist at all, and i learn guitar and reading notes by myself, i don't play flamenco with tempo , everything by feeling , i enjoy playing guitar as much as luthery section where i can see some luthiers latest guitars and their video. i am always looking for new guitars. if you guys stop showing off your latest guitars where can i buy my latest guitars???
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 10:08:10
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

quote:


No. All the arguments and accusations are coming from between yourselves!



I TOTALLY agree. But we have a problem

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 11:23:35
 
Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

RE: taking time away (in reply to estebanana

OMG time for some chromatic scales ! and stop typing .

_____________________________

Peace.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2012 12:14:04
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