RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Journal

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paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to estebanana)

Question -

How do you guys cut your binding and purfling out? Do you use a cutting tool and chisels, a hand held router jig or a universal router jig?

thanks

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troutie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 1:55:38

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

I use a binding jig with trim router.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 2:25:27

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Router with 1/2" hinge mortice bit - I hone it and clean it up every time I use it. They can get gummy in rosewood.

I've also done several guitars with a hand made channel cutting tool. Cypress guitars are easier than rosewood by hand.

You also want to take like 1" long section of binding and and go around the whole channel and make sure it fits every mm along the channel. Use little Warding files and chisels, scrapers to clean the channel if needed. Then bevel the inside of the binding slightly to get the corner out of the way a bit.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 3:04:35

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

I've done it by hand with a gramil and chisel, with a handheld router jig and with a post mounted router(laminate trimmer). The last is the best for me though it is always a sphincter tightening exercise.
Bear in mind that you cant just use a regular router or trimmer becase the angles of the top and back curvature will affect it, you need to register off the sides and the very edge.
Also direction is important , you need to climb cut (diagram on the stewmac site)
Good luck

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 7:09:45

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

I use a slightly "tuned" laminate trimmer I dont do clim cut. Like Stephen, I hone the bit every time I use it (on a diamond stone)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 7:16:18

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

I'm really enjoying this thread troutie. I can imagine how exciting it will be for you to put the strings on and hear your first guitar. I feel excited for you.

I hope one day i will find myself in a position where i can make a guitar myself. Living in a one bedroom unit doesn't really provide the necessary space.

I can't wait to hear yours though. Even if i made a guitar and it didn't turn out so great, It would still be my favorite.

I like these threads where people share a project from start to finish.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 8:05:24

El Polaco

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
From: Singer Island - Florida

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to KMMI77)

Troutie,
Congrats on your progress buddy! Your guitar looks fabulous! I think I'll move to California so I can work in my garage with the door open and not worry about humidity!
I have everything ready to glue together now but I am isolating a "dry" room in my workshop right now for all the main assembly. The Midwest is very humid so as soon as it is stable at about 45ish I will crank the rest out.
I discovered how brittle and fragile cypress is! It tears out very easily and the grain direction changes all over the place. I found myself planing half the board in one direction then having to turn it around and plane the other half in the other direction!
Did you use a thickness sander at all?

Good luck with your binding channels today!

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Jorge

Guitarras Artesanas Españolas
www.jorgedezofia.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 12:16:17

paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Thanks Tom, Stephen, Jeff and Anders. I really like Jeff's statement

"it is always a sphincter tightening exercise." That just hits the nail right on the head!

I think I'll go with the hand held trimmer setup. Bogdanovich as a design which looks pretty solid.

Thanks KMMI77, glad your enjoying it. I used to do you as you - watch these threads dreaming of starting my own some day.

Jorge, smart to wait on the humidity. Yes, I also had issues with the Cypress. My plane is razor sharp, but still would tear out. The grain would shift around a bunch in some areas. I ended up only planing down to .150 inches and sanding the rest of the way with a randon orbital sander. I literally spent hours sanding (read my earlier post). If this guitar does turn out playable - I'm going to sell my Francisco Navaro and buy a thickness sander.

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troutie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 13:47:07

paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Here's the assembled guitar. Sounds great. Resonates right around an "A". Seems like I'm almost there - but I know how much time finishing takes on any project. I'm hoping to be done by summers end.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

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troutie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 14:39:02

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to El Polaco)

quote:

I think I'll move to California so I can work in my garage with the door open and not worry about humidity!

Depends where, on the coast it's usually an average of 60 to 80 RH/ Up on the high mountains it can be 40 Average.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 19:38:41

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

quote:

Resonates right around an "A".

See what it does when you cut the extra top away from the sides. Then see what happens when you cut the binding channel. Then again after the binding is in then again after it is scraped. It changes during all those processes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 19:41:31

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

well it's looking resonably guitarshaped , thats lucky ,
You never said , or I missed what is the design that you are working from ?, or based on , or trying to achieve ,.just out of curiosity ........

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 20:12:28

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

quote:

th the Cypress. My plane is razor sharp, but still would tear out. The grain would shift around a bunch in some areas. I ended up only planing down to .150 inches and sanding the rest of the way with a randon orbital sander. I literally spent hours sanding (read my earlier post). If this guitar does turn out playable - I'm going to sell my Francisco Navaro and buy a thickness sander.

I use a drum sander now to thickness. My favorite tool!

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 20:13:48

paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to El Kiko)

quote:

well it's looking resonably guitarshaped , thats lucky ,
You never said , or I missed what is the design that you are working from ?, or based on , or trying to achieve ,.just out of curiosity ........

LOL - thanks :)

I'm following the Santos Hernandez design in "Making Master Guitars". It's been a learning curve - made a few minor mistakes, but that's what it's all about - as long as you learn from them. I'm going to do a final writeup when I'm done; listing all the lessons I learned along the way. Not everything is detailed in the books, some stuff is part of the school of hard knocks.

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troutie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 20:29:22

paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to TANúñez)

quote:

I use a drum sander now to thickness. My favorite tool!

which model? I'm worried about tolerances.

quote:

I use a drum sander now to thickness. My favorite tool!

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troutie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 20:32:53

El Polaco

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
From: Singer Island - Florida

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to estebanana)

Stephen,
What about Mission Valley, San Diego? (humidity).

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Jorge

Guitarras Artesanas Españolas
www.jorgedezofia.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 21:12:19

paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to El Polaco)

Jorge - sounds like a move :)

I moved from MI 20 years ago, no regrets.

San Diego is the best. Great weather year round. I'm in the San Francisco area. We get a very wet winter. Go for San Diego.

We'll all come visit:)

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troutie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 21:24:30

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

http://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/92101

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/view/prodsByState.php?state=ca&prodtype=hourly

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 21:31:51

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Looking great Troutie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 21:40:15

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

quote:

which model? I'm worried about tolerances.

Jet 16-32

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 22:28:48

paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Thanks Jeff, I'm pretty excited. Hope the next series of steps go smoothly:)

Tom, sounds like your happy with your Jet. That's the one I was looking at. Boy, that would have saved me hours.

Seeing that your "From: The Uterus" guess I can't swing by to use yours :)

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troutie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 23:03:12

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

One thing I would suggest at this stage , before you trim and bind is to check your neck angle using shims to simulate fretboard fret and string height and check the clearance at the bridge location.
If you have it right, great. If not it is easier at this stage to loosen the back in the upper bout and adjust

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 23:10:47

paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Thanks Jeff,

Ouch - that's a scary thought.

So I shim for the fretboard, the frets and the strings (nut and clearance at 12th fret) and run a straight edge down to where the bridge will sit. Then I measure the distance to the top at the bridge location. This clearance should match the bridge hight to the top of the saddle (nominal saddle height).

Is this correct?

If not correct, I cry and stomp my feet.

thanks

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troutie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2012 0:44:08

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Yes that's the idea, assume that the string height at the nut is equal to the fret height.It should be at the high end of the range plus 1/2mm to allow for the neck pulling up into relief.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2012 1:14:14

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to Jeff Highland)

Jeff, I found your website interesting. "Massage Therapy and Guitar Repair". Now there's a combination you don't see that often. After working on a guitar, I can often use a massage. I'm a personal trainer so maybe I should run with "personal training and guitar building" lol.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2012 1:17:40

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

I'll do you a remote session via the net at half price

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2012 1:26:38

paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Things have slowed down a bit, so not a lot of progress to share. I'm working up to the binding and purfling which is a bit scary. Had to made a binding router jig, and rough trim the top/bottom with a template bit.

Here's a pic the the back as I start the rough trimming. Crap, it's really scary to take a router to the guitar after this much progress. I've had so many mishaps with routers over the years. When things go bad they do so fast and major. That being said - having a good trim router makes a whole lot of difference. Trimming went perfect.

Next pic is the purfling/binding jig I made for the router. Did some trial runs on scrap - works good, but still very scary. I'm waiting on a 1/4" spiral down bit to start.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

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troutie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2012 16:51:49

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Trim the overhang with and knife and chisel. It only takes 20 minutes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2012 17:02:36

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to estebanana)

I second this. Trim the overhang first as estebanana said then start the binding.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2012 18:25:22

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: First Build - Troutie's Photo Jo... (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

I use a block plane,knife, and chisel too, can't bring myself to use a router on the overhang, too much leverage to break away big sections especially at the widest areas of the upper and lower bouts

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2012 21:04:53