RE: Evaluating soundboards

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Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Evaluating soundboards (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

IMO, the typical classical concert guitar has gone to far. I dont like the sound of them and they can be very hard to play. Maybe its the fact that the spanish guitar doesnt have much volume and that it sometimes has to work in front of a full orchestra or maybe its because many concert guitarists still play without microphone. But I find that focus is to much on volume and projection and not on soundquality and dynamics
I personally prefer the smaller lighter traditional spanish classical guitars. The ones based on Torres and also some other ones with slightly beefy bracing like Romanillos and Hernandez y Aguado.
I would love to build a classical with cypress back and sides and a cedar top, but it might be difficult to sell. Cypress always sounds the best when doing rasgueados. Its because of capacity to kind of distort the high freqenzies. A bit like the sound of a Valve amplifier compared to a transistor.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2012 7:36:14

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Evaluating soundboards (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I don't think you can use a blanket to cover all concert guitars. To some degree you are right though about some of the guys who build and market their guitars as concert instruments. I've disliked most latice guitars I've tried out. Most of them are too warm and fuzzy, Perhaps it's because of the cedar tops.

Mr Faulk - I think you shouldn't follow suit and build what you think people want, Build what you like and carve your own niche. Take direction from people who really know what they're talking about. I've been lucky enough to get some advice from some really great players over the years who have been able to tell what I can improve on and thanks to that I'm building guitars that I really like the sound of and suit the players because it behaves they way they want.

I've taken influences from builders like Santos Hernandez and Daniel Freidreich to reach my current classical guitar. It's lighly built so it's responsive and it's also controlled but not to the point it lacks personality. I think it retains that slight flamenco edge but it's not suitable for flamenco at all. I think thats really important too, not to build a cross over instrument because usually they're not suited to either.

On my next set of builds I will be making a Small Bodied Cypress/Spruce Classical. I will let you know how I get on with it. It will be my first cypress classical.

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2012 10:33:14

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Evaluating soundboards (in reply to Shawn Brock)

quote:

I'm not saying that a guitar shouldn't look great, but some of the best I have ever played looked the worse. And I'm not saying that I'm some great player, but damn it when I own a guitar I play it, not just hang it on the wall or leave it in its case...

You are in good company with Willie Nelson, whose Martin N-20 (which he named "Trigger") is probably the most beat-up guitar (with a hole worn in the soundboard) still being played today. Willie refuses to have it repaired, claiming that to do so would be tantamount to repairing the crack in the Liberty Bell.

Cheers,

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2012 14:42:49

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Evaluating soundboards (in reply to BarkellWH)

quote:

Willie refuses to have it repaired, claiming that to do so would be tantamount to repairing the crack in the Liberty Bell.

Willie is correct and given three days with that piece of junk I would re top it.

jUst to let Willie know I like Waylon better.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2012 15:40:32

Shawn Brock

Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY

RE: Evaluating soundboards (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

F lattice braced guitars... I own one and never cared for it in the least.

When I was playing a lot of classical I thought that if a guitarist was hooked up on needing volume that double tops were superior to lattice braced instruments. It seems that double tops still maintain somewhat of a semblance of what a classical guitar is supposed to sound like. That's not to say that they sound as good tonally as a traditional box, but they do have more tone than lattice braced guitars IMO... I have to wonder when classical musicians will be smart enough to start using microphones and just play the instrument which sounds best. I'll never say that I wish a guitar had less volume, but there's still this thing called tone, and it seems some people forget about it. It don't matter how much volume a guitar has if the sound it puts out is crappy... Some folks need to just go with carbon fiber instruments and forget about it...

As a man who's not a builder I can say this. Most luthiers won't become wealthy, they may live comfortably, but most won't ever have the money of a pro ball player. Making instruments is such a personal thing... Its just like the music made on an instrument is such a personal thing. You have to build your heart and soul and nothing else. Not everyone will like or catch on to "your sound", and that's fine. It don't mean that your product is any less than anyone else's. In the end you have to replicate your spirit with wood, and if you don't do that then the hell with you. LOL Its okay to try to accommodate a player's wants or needs, just as long as they are inside the template which is your foundation for building. Your experiences as a craftsman have given you a bed of knowledge that us players will never understand, and you build based on your experience. Every guitar will always be somewhat of an experiment and that's okay, but some things are clear to you the builder, and you will always use those bits of information. So just do what you do people and remember that change isn't always a good thing. If you want to build some lattice braced or double tops, there is nothing wrong with that. If you hate them, then don't build them though!

All of you guys are to good of builders to question the foundation of your instruments! And that's just my Yankee .20...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 1:01:56

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Evaluating soundboards (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I started a cedar top for a Cypress guitar with Rodriguez bracing. As if I have enough projects going, but eh top was already joined and thicknessed to 2.3 so why not. It's on the back burner, but I'm thinking about October. Got to get some things out for July.

I will not be rubbing salt on the fan braces so don't even go there.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 1:43:40

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: Evaluating soundboards (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I started a cedar top for a Cypress guitar with Rodriguez bracing. As if I have enough projects going, but eh top was already joined and thicknessed to 2.3 so why not. It's on the back burner, but I'm thinking about October. Got to get some things out for July.

I will not be rubbing salt on the fan braces so don't even go there.

What about some pepper then just to spice it up?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2012 4:43:35