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BarkellWH

Posts: 2826
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to JasonM

At 9:00 AM Eastern Daylight time, tomorrow, Wednesday, April 10, scientists will hold simultaneous news conferences in Washington, DC, Belgium, Denmark, Chile, Japan, China, and Taiwan to reveal the long-awaited results of the Event Horizon Telescope. It will be very interesting to see the results.

It is things like this, the Event Horizon Telescope, as well as other like endeavors, that we should be spending our funds on. Trump's idea of returning to the moon is a waste of time, money and talent. We've done that and should be moving on to more intriguing things like Mars on the one hand and a greater understanding of quantum mechanics on the other.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2019 19:05:16
 
Arash

Posts: 4401
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to Arash

In Anticipation of tomorrow, here is a pretty good video



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2019 23:04:22
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2601
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to Arash

Thanks for the link, Arash.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2019 23:19:27
 
JasonM

Posts: 911
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to Arash

quote:


In Anticipation of tomorrow, here is a pretty good video


LOL! I just posted this video like 5 post back. Anyway, love this guy’s videos. And PBS Space Time
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2019 1:02:30

Piwin

Posts: 2180
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to JasonM

In anticipation of later on today, here's a pretty good video:





_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2019 7:11:47
 
Arash

Posts: 4401
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

quote:


In Anticipation of tomorrow, here is a pretty good video


LOL! I just posted this video like 5 post back. Anyway, love this guy’s videos. And PBS Space Time


Sorry, missed it

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2019 11:36:09
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11074
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to Arash

Damn....I guess they are freaking real!







No Sagittarius A because she is not feeding like M87 was I guess, but he said they are working on it.
They said 7 years ago this thing wouldn’t look so photogenic, cuz it was spitting out blobs of plasma
back then, part of that massive jet stream.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2019 15:12:20
 
Shroomy726

Posts: 1329
Joined: Jun. 5 2005
From: Argentina (living in U.S.)

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to BarkellWH

I watched the whole press conference. Fascinating stuff. This is probably one of the biggest scientific accomplishments in my lifetime. Truly amazing what we can achieve when all borders are removed and scientists work together across the globe.

I love that one of the first questions from the press was that it looks kind of fuzzy and if can they sharpen it lol come on

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Gracias Paco por la música que nos diste. Me cambiaste la vida y nunca lo olvidaré. Que en paz descanses.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2019 15:48:13
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2826
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to Ricardo

Great posting the photos, Ricardo. What a testament to man's intellectual and technical ability to begin to really understand the universe, both at the macro level (cosmology) and the micro level (quantum mechanics). This is one big step among many, but it is huge.

Below are a couple of quotes from the website ARS Technica.

"At a press conference this morning, Avery Broderick of the Perimeter Institute described what the images tell us. One key finding is that the object is a black hole, at least as we've understood black holes using relativity. It does not have any visible surface, and the "shadow" of light it creates is circular within the limits of our observations. We can also tell that it spins clockwise. All of the properties we can infer from these images are consistent with relativity. "I was a little stunned that it matched the predictions we made so well," said Broderick.

"The University of Amsterdam's Sera Markoff said that the size of the black hole provided a new estimate of its mass; she called it "really a monster, even by black hole standards." It's roughly the size of the Solar System, but has a mass that's 6.5 billion times that of our Sun. This actually resolved a conflict between two other measures of its mass, one from the motion of gas clouds nearby, the other from tracking the stars orbiting it. This may help us refine estimates of mass for black holes elsewhere."

Great stuff.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2019 15:54:22
 
JasonM

Posts: 911
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to Ricardo

Behold the great eye of Sauron!

The guy also said something like the view of Sagittarius A is always shifting making it hard to image.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2019 16:16:51
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3736
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to BarkellWH

What kind of timeline would be presented with the emulated movements in the first .gif?
-

In another forum someone said hopefully this would contribute to (perceived) shrinking of the problems on earth, to which I posted an excerpt from a dialog with a fictive AI-consciousness. -Named Olga, that I mentioned here before.
(Whichs content again, I suppose no one here would like to ponder about.)

Another poster said how fascinating it was to see what can be gained when international scientifical means are bundled up.

To which me fully agrees.
May such swiftly come about for imminently relevant matters on this tiny planet, 55 mill. light years off the scene.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2019 16:19:24

Piwin

Posts: 2180
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to Ricardo

Thanks for the pictures. Truly amazing. I'm both excited and kind of terrified that these things are actually out there...

Today, we also had an announcement on the discovery (or confirmation rather) of a new branch in our family tree: homo luzonensis
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1067-9

That's a lot to take in for one day!

PS: reading up on it, it seems that the first "accurate" visual representation of a black hole (horizon event, you know what I mean!) goes back to the work of Jean-Pierre Luminet (published in La Recherche and Astronomy and Astrophysics in 1979) using a punch-card IBM 7040 (see last page):
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1979A%26A....75..228L
40 years later and we finally have the real thing!

_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2019 18:38:11
 
Shroomy726

Posts: 1329
Joined: Jun. 5 2005
From: Argentina (living in U.S.)

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to BarkellWH

For those who want to watch the whole thing:



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Gracias Paco por la música que nos diste. Me cambiaste la vida y nunca lo olvidaré. Que en paz descanses.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2019 19:35:20
 
Arash

Posts: 4401
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to Ricardo

One of those rare days where science fiction becomes science fact.




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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2019 20:01:54
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2826
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to BarkellWH

Today, 29 May 2019, marks the one hundredth anniversary of the solar eclipse that provided direct evidence of Einstein's theory of gravity laid out in his General Theory of Relativity. It confirmed that gravity was not a force acting independently across a passive space, but was a function of the warp and curvature of space-time itself.

Walter Isaacson, in his biography of Einstein, recounts an exchange between Einstein and a graduate student, Ilse Schneider, when news came that the theory had been confirmed. Schneider recalled later that at the time she asked Einstein what he would have thought if the eclipse observation had contradicted his theory. Einstein replied, "Then I would have been sorry for the dear Lord, because the theory is correct."

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 29 2019 14:50:49
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11074
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH

Today, 29 May 2019, marks the one hundredth anniversary of the solar eclipse that provided direct evidence of Einstein's theory of gravity laid out in his General Theory of Relativity. It confirmed that gravity was not a force acting independently across a passive space, but was a function of the warp and curvature of space-time itself.

Walter Isaacson, in his biography of Einstein, recounts an exchange between Einstein and a graduate student, Ilse Schneider, when news came that the theory had been confirmed. Schneider recalled later that at the time she asked Einstein what he would have thought if the eclipse observation had contradicted his theory. Einstein replied, "Then I would have been sorry for the dear Lord, because the theory is correct."

Bill


I often come across the topic of grand unification.... referring to running the cosmic movie backward in time such that in the earliest moments after the Big Bang event, the 4 known “forces” recouple together and appear to be a single force. This apparently works neatly for strong nuclear force, the weak force, and the electromagnetic force....but the comparative weakness of gravity makes it stand off from the others. Theorists looking for clues focus on the need for forces to use bosons to exchange force info between locations (gluons for atomic nucleus, W and Z for weak interaction, photons for electromagnetism), so they hope that a discovery of a ”graviton particle”, might lead us toward unification if the thing can fit into the standard model framework.

But it always confused me why they need to do this at all if GR reveals gravity to be a curvature of space response to presence of massive objects, rather than a “force”. If the sun disappeared magically, spacetime snaps back flat with a wave that propagates at the speed of light, no need or even time for gravitons to be exchanged in some way to make this happen. Earth orbit changes instantly as we see the sun blink out 8 minutes after the last emitted photon reaches us because the gravity wave hits us at the same precise moment So unless I am miss understanding the supposed graviton interaction (I am sure I am), I don’t see a point to trying to unify gravity at all. If anybody could explain it clearly that would be great! Meanwhile I believe the dark matter problem and this unification problem to be directly related (the reason both are elusive is due to the same misunderstanding about GR).

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 30 2019 14:50:32
 
JasonM

Posts: 911
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to Ricardo

I know exactly what you mean. This same exact question has been bothering me for some time. It never seems to get addressed in the popular books or talks I listen to in enough detail. But I THINK I have some idea about why the Graviton “has to” exist... and that is because of Quantum Field Theory. If you make the other forces like Electromagnetism a field that lives in space, and you must quantize that force, then the logic follows that space itself gets quantized too in the process. Now everything in the world must happen in discrete chunks of vomit soup. This of course caused all kinds of issues in the process like vacuum energy discrepancies that have to be normalized and how to deal with gravity.

If space is quantized and the sun were to be blown up by aliens then the gravitational wave would propagate like a series of graviton dominos, because space is not a continuous medium according to QFT.

Dark matter was thought to be a possible GR/gravity problem but now there is enough evidence that points to it being a particle. Those that still hang on to GR have to alter the rules so much that it falls apart in other basic areas.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 30 2019 16:27:05
 
joselito_fletan

 

Posts: 155
Joined: Jan. 24 2017
 

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to Ricardo

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 30 2019 19:03:35

Piwin

Posts: 2180
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Black Hole eats sun (in reply to joselito_fletan

I'm sticking to this thread for all space-related news:

looks like we're going back to Titan. The previous probe, Huygens (ESA), was designed to emit data only during descent and for a very short while on the surface (if memory serves it sent data for just an hour or two after landing). The new probe, Dragonfly, will spend two years on the surface and, unlike the Mars rovers, it will be flying around instead of rolling around. It'll be another 15 years before it gets there though (launch in 2026, arrival in 2034).

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasas-dragonfly-will-fly-around-titan-looking-for-origins-signs-of-life/

_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2019 16:24:40
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