PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE 26 CD BOX SET

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JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE 26 C...

I have for sale the Paco De lucia "Integral" box set consisting of all 26 of Paco's CDs. The set is in great condition, and some of the CDs still have their plastic wrapping on them (not all).
This box set sells for A LOT of money on www.amazon.co.uk and www.Flamencon.com , however, I would be willing to sell it for £99 (GBP) or 145 Euros plus postage (at actual cost).
For those who are not familiar, here is some info on the set:

This collection takes a unique journey through Paco de Lucía's oeuvre between 1964 and 1998: thirty-four years and twenty-six records that are almost exclusively devoted to the flamenco guitar.
For the release of this box-set the original covers of the record sleeves have been recovered and all the records have been re-mastered. Furthermore, it also includes two books, in Spanish and English, that look at the life and the work of the master from Algeciras.

However, the collection goes beyond being a mere artistic biography. It also includes guides for listening to the over 250 pieces of guitar playing that are included in the CD version of the box-set, an index of the titles and another one of the palos (flamenco forms), to make it easier for listeners to find the recordings they are interested in.

26 CDs – these are:

1. Dos Guitarras Flamencas En Stereo (1964)

2. 12 Canciones De Garcia Lorca Para Guitarra (1965)

3. 12 Exitos Para 2 Guitarras Flamencas (1965)

4. La Fabulosa Guitarra De Paco De Lucia (1967)

5. Canciones Andaluzas Para 2 Guitarras (1967)

6. Dos Guitarras Flamencas En America Latina (1967)

7. Fantasia Flamenca De Paco De Lucia (1969)

8. 12 Hits Para 2 Guitarras Flamencas Y Orquesta De Cuerda (1969)

9. Paco De Lucia Y Ramon De Algeciras En Hispanoamerica (1969)

10. El Mundo Del Flamenco (1971)

11. Recital De Guitarra De Paco De Lucia (1971)

12. El Duende Flamenco De Paco De Lucia (1972)

13. Fuente Y Caudal (1973)

14. Paco De Lucia En Vivo Desde El Teatro Real (1975)

15. Almoraima (1976)

16. Paco De Lucia Interpreta A Manuel De Falla (1978)

17. Castro Marin (1981)

18. Solo Quiero Caminar (1981)

19. Live... One Summer Night (1984)

20. Siroco (1987)

21. Zyryab (1990)

22. Concierto De Aranjuez - Iberia / Albeniz (1992)

23. Paco De Lucia & Sextet, Live In America (1993)

24. Guitar Trio (1996)

25. Luzia (1998)

26. Paco De Lucia Para Descubrir (1964 - 1999)

Here is a link to the Amazon web page for the set:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000A0A47/qid%3D1122564316/202-7937455-8694253

Any questions, just let me know.

Thanks,

James

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2005 15:22:05

Guest

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Bit steep - try El Corte Ingles

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2005 15:35:44

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Why do you wanna sell it? Did you already copy all?hehe
Try on ebay.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2005 20:13:48

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

The plan was to buy it, copy it and sell it.

But I am open to offers if anyone wants to make a sensible offer under that price.

Cheers,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2005 10:54:26

Guest

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

The plan was to buy it, copy it and sell it.

¡Que poca verguenza tiene! This is ILLEGAL and harms music and musicians.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2005 13:07:06

Guest

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Sorry James but I can only agree with Sean. We all know it goes on but when it is for money I think it is at a different level.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2005 14:16:06

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Sorry that last one was me. Wasn't meant to be anon.

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2005 14:17:19

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to flyeogh)

Sorry guys, and sorry Paco!!!

But hey, someone else sold the CDs to me second hand, so I figured to pass them on to another one of Paco's fans wouldn't be that bad if it helps to raise awareness about his music.

Besides, the money I make is to pay for my ticket to see Paco live at the Barbican in October, so he's sort of getting most of it back again!!!

Cheers,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2005 16:06:40

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean
¡Que poca verguenza tiene! This is ILLEGAL and harms music and musicians.

Sean

Yes I agree, am not sure that there is any justfication for doing this to any musician even one as rich as Paco and I hate to see this going on on our forum. Like Sean we make flamenco recordings, at our own expense we promote, make and distribute CDs and reading posts like this make me wonder why we bother if people feel justified in copying and selling them on.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2005 10:53:43

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to Kate)

Kate, Sean,
I am sorry you feel this way.

The idea was not to sell the CDs in order to make a profit to keep for myself. The reason I advertised the CDs on the forum first rather than going straight to Ebay was because I wanted them to go to a good home, preferably a serious Paco fan. I bought the CDs second hand myself, and had no intention of selling them at all at the time. The only reason I decided to pass them on is because I recently noticed Paco was playing live near where I live, and the only thing I have to sell of sufficient value to allow me to afford a ticket is this box set. So the obvious thing to do seemed to be to pass on the CDs to someone who really wants them, whilst making enough money for my ticket. I have not yet copied ANY of the CDs (hence why I advertised some of them as still having their plastic wrappings on them), but if I do copy a few of them, it would be for my own reference so that I have a greater knowledge and understanding of Paco's work.

I'd like to think that Paco would understand me wanting to see him perform badly enough to sell my collection of his CDs. It is not a matter of undermining him to make a quick buck. Which is why I said I was open to offers under what I payed for them- its not about profit.

Thanks,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2005 12:03:21

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

i can only speak for sweden.

The law here alows anybody to copy their own cd´s.
If i have a paco cd i can make a 1000 copies as long as i don´t sell the copied cd´s.
You have the right to make "back ups"
I belive you also have the right to sell any ORIGINAL cd´s second hand.
It only turns illegal when you start selling the copy.

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2005 12:32:22

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

JBASHORUN at the end of the day is not Kate or Sean who miss out if you dont have the money to see Paco ..... is you .

Is not as if you making a profit , is not right legaly but i dont think is all that wrong moraly , as you said the money you making for it goes right back to paying for Pacos concert.
I dont see the problem.

Everyone has at one point done something illegal, copyed a cd , taped a movie, shared a copywrited falseta the only difference is that some are open and upfront about it and some just dont talk about it.

Kate & Sean no I have nothing but respect for you both I am just not in a huge hurry to jump on JBASHORUN's back over this , since I myself have done it and theres no excuse for it ... it just is

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2005 13:04:19

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Henrik I cannot speak for Sweden but your case for copies and originals I think holds little water as a defense on the moral issue. The physical media has little value. I believe when I buy a CD I am paying for the right to hear the recording. It is like a license for computer software. We are talking here about copyright and contract.

But I think the issue here is much deeper. Firstly if I walked into El Corte Ingles in Madrid and said I was only stealing the first item so that I could return to buy another I think the judge would rightly have little sympathy.

Secondly to use this forum to openly promote such activity that directly damages flamenco I think sends out a strange message to the wider community.

Florian, yes it happens but justyfing it I find difficult.

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2005 13:14:08

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to flyeogh)

flyegoh , It is a sad world, and unfair world !
thers kids starving in Africa just because they were born in Africa,
Theres the spoiled son of a rich person who buys this nice Sounding Conde after 1 week of playing, while someone been saving and playing a long time and still cant afford that guitar.
Life is not fair it is how it is ..

Mate I am not justifing anything I am just beeing honest give me a brake ! we have all done it. If not with cds with something else.

flyeogh....
If you can sitt there and honeslty say that you have never done anything wrong I will eat my words ..
You have never copied a cd, never taped a movie from tv, never performed someone's falseta without giving them the credit..

I cant belive that we are all gonna stand there and act like we are Angels while we make JBASHORUN feel like crap when we have all done it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2005 13:56:26

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Fair enough. I can say I have never copied a CD or whatever for money but I'm no angel. As for playing a falseta - the day awaits.

I don't want to beat anyone up. But equally the starving of africa wlill starve if we do nothing about it.

Sorry James if it sounds like a beat up but I do feel strongly about these things. It is the promotion of the justification that worries me. I have felt your enthusiasm for flamenco and I'm sure overall your good for flamenco. Its just the means justifying the end.

C'est la vie - enough said. Think I'll go for the beer. Could be worse, I could be a Celtic supporter 9 goals conceded in two games!!!

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2005 14:07:24

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to flyeogh)

Woah, Nigel! Steady on! The first time I justified copying some Flamenco CDs for another member was another issue. And one that I believe benefitted Flamenco enirely. Skai (Cheston) lived in a country where Flamenco CDs were not readily available, yet had an honest interest in the music. In my humble opinion, I was doing Flamenco a favour by promoting it countries where it is not accessible. If Cheston becomes more enthusiastic about Flamenco as a result, then personally, I feel that both Flamenco (AND this forum) have benefitted from that. It should be noted that NO MONEY EXCHANGED HANDS, and I was trying to unofficially promote the work of the artists involved.
As for the duplication of the PDL box set- I buy if for £90 or so, listen to it, copy 2 or 3 CDs, then sell it for even less than I pay for it just to buy something else related to Flamenco- I don't see that as a major crime against Flamenco. I'm obviously not copying all 26 CDs, and and not selling any of the copies I make. Any copies are for personal use, and to improve my knowledge and understanding of the genre. Perhaps they will make me a better musician. But as I said, I bought the CDs second hand myself, so is that immoral? If it is, then much of capitalism needs to be re-thought, and Ebay closed down.
Basically, if I sell the CDs, Paco gets an extra £50 from me coming to his concert. He may also get a new fan who has discovered his work.
If it is not the selling you object to, perhaps its the duplication you dissagree with. But as I said, I only plan to copy a few of the CDs- the ones I like best. And only out of admiration for the work. I'd like to think studying his work would make me a better musician, which would in turn benefit Flamenco as a whole. If I'm going to have to sell the CDs anyway to buy a ticket to the concert, I don't see how me not making one or two personal copies will make that much difference to Paco apart from the fact that I won't have them to refer to.
But yes, a minor infringement of copyright, as you say. And one should not get into the habit of doing so.

Cheers,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2005 14:32:25

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Anyway, I think the point is made- DO NOT COPY OTHER PEOPLE'S CDs UNLESS IT CAN BE AVOIDED!

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2005 14:35:30

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

But what if you know for sure that the guy's whos cd you wanna copy has once copied someone elses cd himself ?

just beeing stupid ...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 1 2005 15:13:55

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

James, I have a lot of feelings on this issue, but it is hard to convey fairly by typing. You have just recently asked advice on titles, so you are a rather new "aficionado", no? For me it is not so much about copying, or selling, or artists rights, etc, but more about what it means to be an aficionado. You did not even open some of the discs in that excellent pack? You just copied the ones that were more highly recommended? And now you need money for Paco's concert? You have NOTHING else of value to sell? I think that is lame dude.

It is like a guy JUST converted to christianity, and now is selling his bible (after copying a few important pages) so he can get tickets to see the pope give a speech!

Seriously, man, KEEP the box. AND go see the concert. Sheeeeeesh!!!!
I starved myself in college so I could get my flamenco fix of at least one CD every couple weeks. Then came the encuentro vids....then the condes..... I have the whole Paco collection, plus some double copies, reissues, etc, ....still I am thinking about grabbing that box

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 2 2005 8:17:51

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: PACO DE LUCIA INTEGRAL COMPLETE ... (in reply to Ricardo)

Ricardo,
I understand what you have said, and thought your example regarding the Bible was a good one.
The trouble is that I am unemployed at the moment, so money is tight. I recently sold everything of value that I own on Ebay to buy my Flamenco guitar, so there is very little left to sell that would make much money.
When I bought the box set, I didn't know that Paco would be playing near where I live. Had I known, I would have bought a ticket to the concert instead- because Paco only plays in England once every 5 years or so, whereas the CD box set will always be available.
I did think about copying ALL of the CDs as opposed to just one or two, but the other members are right that it is morally dubious, and so should be avoided if possible... I figured just 3 or 4 would be easier on my conscience.
But the fact that I thought about copying them all is a sign that I wanted to keep all 26 CDs. In the end I think I will keep the CDs, as there is a good book with the set that talks about Paco and his work. Maybe I will borrow the money for the concert.

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 2 2005 11:11:10