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Paco de Lucia's Performance in Washington, DC
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 Paco de Lucia's Performance in Washi...
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Last evening, I went to see Paco de Lucia's performance at the Strathmore Music Center in Bethesda, Maryland, a suburb of Washington, DC. As usual, Paco put on an amazing display of guitar virtuosity. His group consisted of a second guitarist, a cajon player, a bass guitarist, a harmonica player, a singer, palmas, and a male dancer. Each piece was long, with many different riffs and lightning-fast picados. There was very little rasgueado or tremolo. The bass guitarist was good, and the harmonica player really put his soul into it. And, as I stated, Paco's virtuoso performance on the guitar remains unrivaled.
What the performance was not, however, was great flamenco. I would call it "jazz-infused," fusion-flamenco. (I hate that term "fusion," but there you are.) In fact, my wife (who is Brazilian) and I both agreed that some of the performance sounded very much like Brazilian jazz with a bit of samba thrown in. There were riffs when Paco sounded very much like early Carlos Barbosa-Lima. I don't think he deliberately meant to, but then, maybe he did. At the end, Paco and his group came back on stage for a great encore. To sum up, It was a great performance and a fine musical evening. But if I want to listen to what most of us think of as more traditional flamenco, I would turn to Paco Pena.
Full disclosure: I did not take my guitar with me, I did not run back-stage to try and catch Paco in his dressing room like some aging groupie, and I did not try to get him to autograph my (non-existent) guitar or my wife's posterior.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 19 2012 14:29:28
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Paco de Lucia's Performance in W... (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
no it was all traditional flamenco. By now i would hope folks that follow flamenco know what paco's show is about.
I understand what Paco's show is about (having seen him on several occasions), and I very much enjoyed it. And I certainly accept different individuals' definition of "traditional." Mine, however, does not include lots of bass guitar and harmonica. It is all a matter of personal taste, and for the more traditional flamenco, my taste runs to Paco Pena.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 19 2012 15:14:34
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Bulerias2005
Posts: 632
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN
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RE: Paco de Lucia's Performance in W... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
quote:
no it was all traditional flamenco. By now i would hope folks that follow flamenco know what paco's show is about.
I understand what Paco's show is about (having seen him on several occasions), and I very much enjoyed it. And I certainly accept different individuals' definition of "traditional." Mine, however, does not include lots of bass guitar and harmonica. It is all a matter of personal taste, and for the more traditional flamenco, my taste runs to Paco Pena.
Cheers,
Bill
Bill, that sounds exactly what Humberto said after the show. You know what's funny, though, Paco seems to agree... here's part of their backstage conversation:
Paco: "You know, Humberto, I have this thing where I tell my bandmembers that they sucked after every show. Why don't you tell that to them this time?"
Humberto: "Not only were they crap, but your playing was terrible as well!"
*gasps from bandmembers*
Paco: "I know! I retired from flamenco 30 years ago".
_____________________________
Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
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Date Apr. 19 2012 15:18:49
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Ricardo
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Paco de Lucia's Performance in W... (in reply to mezzo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mezzo
quote:
All the cantes that were sung in either F# like taranta, or C#
Ricardo how do you determinate the keys for cante?
Is it by the singer' voice only (regardless of the guitar or capo position. eg without capo). Or is it relative to the capo position of the guitar?
I mean isnt' the pitch' voice always the same? If a cantaor sings various tunes, the guitarist could varied the key by moving the capo. But his voice remains always in the same key.
Am I right? 
quote:
Paco Pena
Ah! This brave traditional pillar. Fortunatly he's there... 
Sorry I was not clear. The guitar is the driving force in Paco's group if you have not paid attention to his performances for the last 25 years or so. The cante is placed inside his arrangement of familiar themes he has recorded throughout the history of his career. He doesn't just play new material or "Jam on jazz fusion" numbers as many casual listeners seem to think (judging by their reviews). Often he has to arrange older falsetas to new keys, or change keys in the middle of a piece. And it is not always the same arrangement, the band has to be well versed in all his typical falsetas for a form so Paco can sort of improvise the arrangement.
Anyway solea por buleria was in F# no capo, as was Zyrab. While perhaps most of the audience just hears jazz, the singers both sang Solea alcala joaquin 1, Buleria larga, and Siguiriyas (manuel torre style) in this key which is equivalent of 9 por medio! The buleria, siguiriya/solea por buleria medley was in C# no capo, equivalent of 4 por medio. So the singers had to have the equivalent range of jumping the same type of letras between 9 por medio and 9 por arriba in order to accomodate Paco's pieces. Tangos was in E no capo, so 7 por medio. HOpe that makes some sense.
ANd about "brave" paco peña.... I guess if you consider interpreting N. Ricardo Sabicas and Montoya live your entire career (with a sneek here or there from 70s era PDL por fandango) as brave....where as someone like Paco de Lucia plays is so playing it safe by evolving EACH form with every new recording and continues to change it up here and there live at 64 years old..... 
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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 19 2012 16:23:26
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Ricardo
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Paco de Lucia's Performance in W... (in reply to mezzo)
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quote:
So singing for Paco is something too specific
No, it's what they have settled on. Paco has arranged his stuff to accomodate lots of different singers he has used...or shall I say EXPOSED to the world. I have seen Paco drop falsetas to lower keys...he has played tangos for example in D, D#, and E. Por medio is por medio so he is able to adapt to whatever key por medio for all those cantes. Obvious he likes some estribillos of camaron or his brother wrote, or ones HE wrote... It is not like he is forcing cante to do what HE wants....I was just surprised at what keys the singers have settled on, knowing what paco has done for singers in the past, and was just trying to share it with you guys. As far as catoring to a cantaor totally....I remind that he stopped doing that LONG ago because he was embarressed to get more accolades then the singer. So after his brother left, he has promoted what I call "Camaroneros" with his world tours and recordings. Potito, Duquende, Utrera, Chonchi, Tana, Cigala, and now this David guy, all possibly could have remained wannabes if not for Paco's support. IMO.
Ricardo
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 19 2012 17:01:55
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ToddK
Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
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RE: Paco de Lucia's Performance in W... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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The show was great. The band was outstanding.
The sound was exceptionally good in this hall. Great acoustics and a
great sound system.
However, Paco's playing, other than some nice punchy picados, was
pretty soft and tired. At least in comparison to 20 years ago when i saw
him at Lisner auditorium.
Dont get me wrong, he's still playing great. There were some nice powerful
rasgeo's, and some stops that hit you in the face.
But overall, especially the thumb work, which is a majority of the night, sounded weak and muffled compared to what i expected. I could follow the falsettas i knew pretty well, but much of the night, i couldnt really hear what he was doing.
I dont think it was a sound system issue. I could hear him when he dug into a part. I just think at this point, he doesnt want to kill his right hand blasting
out every note full bore like he used to. I caught him at several points of the night during other members solos, rubbing and massaging his hands alot.
And though the band was fantastic, i got the overall feeling that they were
desperately fighting boredom, and were totally burnt out on the set.
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Date Apr. 19 2012 17:08:13
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Mark2
Posts: 1868
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Paco de Lucia's Performance in W... (in reply to Ricardo)
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There are flamencos everywhere(not just in the US) of different ages that like different kinds of flamenco. No one is obligated to enjoy Paco's latest experiment more than his older stuff. Many people don't even like his early solo stuff because it was too modern. It doesn't make them bad afficianados and it doesn't mean they don't understand the key of F#
Artists of all kinds have been frustrated by their fans because they want to hear the stuff that made them famous more than the latest creation. I think it's legit to consider if what Paco is playing today would make him famous today or if he gets to continue to perform in front of large audiences based more on what he has done and who he is.
For sure many people don't understand what he is playing, that has always been the case, but there are also many other supporters who know well what he is doing, but prefer to hear something else. Is it wrong to prefer Cepa to the latest bulerias in C#? No, it's human nature, and I think Paco , and any other artist who has had the good fortune to have a career performing for fifty years or so, might want to throw a bone to followers that like the old stuff, instead of insulting them.
Having said all that, I'm really taking a contrary position to make a point. I don't need Paco to play his old solos to enjoy his performance, but I would rather see him get rid of the harmonica and the bass player. I have very little interest in hearing those instruments in flamenco, and it's not because I can't dig F#
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
He said in an interview I think in 1997 or so that America audiences are warm, but still stuck on Sabicas era flamenco and don't understand what he is playing. Sorry fellow americans, but its true and it's embarrassing. I hope Paco has SOME good success with tour and decides to return cuz he still plays great and these gaps are getting longer and longer between visits it seems.
Ricardo
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Date Apr. 19 2012 17:11:23
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mezzo
Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr
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RE: Paco de Lucia's Performance in W... (in reply to Ricardo)
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Ricardo thanks for the replies 
quote:
Potito, Duquende, Utrera, Chonchi, Tana, Cigala, and now this David guy, all possibly could have remained wannabes if not for Paco's support. IMO.
You didn't named Montse Cortes on purpose?
quote:
I dont think it was a sound system issue. I could hear him when he dug into a part. I just think at this point, he doesnt want to kill his right hand blasting
out every note full bore like he used to.
I saw him in a particular context. Not in a theatre but outdoors under a tent. The sound was set up also low for him regarding the rest of the band. I was standing up very close to him and could notice that he played super soft.
Add the softness, the low set up volume, and the public behaviour (speaking loudly as if it was a rock gig), at the end of the show, several peoples complained about the issue that it was hard to hear Paco.
One even said to me that this way Paco's mistakes go unnoticed
quote:
might want to throw a bone to followers that like the old stuff, instead of insulting them.
wow! that's HARSH man! Do you really think that Paco insults his public??!!
_____________________________
"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
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Date Apr. 19 2012 17:46:23
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Paco de Lucia's Performance in W... (in reply to XXX)
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quote:
Since when is traditional the only definition of great flamenco.
If you recall, Deniz, I wrote,"I certainly accept different individuals' definition of "traditional." Mine, however, does not include lots of bass guitar and harmonica. It is all a matter of personal taste." I made it clear that I was only giving my opinion. You are free to have yours, as is everyone else.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 19 2012 19:02:27
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Same thing every time he comes I hear "oh I hope he plays some good ol flamenco this time" or "I saw the same exact concert 10 years ago" or "paco doesn't have the speed anymore" etc etc type crap. He said in an interview I think in 1997 or so that America audiences are warm, but still stuck on Sabicas era flamenco and don't understand what he is playing. Sorry fellow americans, but its true and it's embarrassing. I hope Paco has SOME good success with tour and decides to return cuz he still plays great and these gaps are getting longer and longer between visits it seems. 
