RE: You know what?The E bay guitar that I didnt pay a cent to the seller, arrived today!

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Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Arash)

Sellers only have access to your name and address if you win the auction or complete the BIN process. The seller should not have sent this without receiving cleared payment first, but that doesn't mean you should keep the guitar without paying for it. After all, by hitting BIN you agreed to pay for it.

quote:

People like this boy are the nightmare of every ebay member.
Buying , then changing his mind. Not paying.

IIRC two or three "no buy bids" and an eBayer will be banned.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 15:05:25

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

Here is the guitar he bought.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280820606523&_trksid=p2992.m753

Clearly he clicked all the steps necessary to buy the guitar. That was MArch 20. Now add the shipping time. Voila.

In the other thread he tells us that the Seller might be a Scammer, while the seller is someone with 100% positive feedback.
Kehati simply was in the mood to buy that guitar that day, now he either doesn't want it anymore or doesn't have the money.
Therefore the fabricated story in the other thread.

Now your only chance is followings: LISTEN, the seller MIGHT have a return policy. In other auctions he mentiones following

quote:

If you do not agree is a most lovely guitar, just return it within three days and I will happily return your money less shipping costs which I cannot recover.

SO, return it TODAY, pay the shipping and send and email to the seller and apologize for waisting his time and money. Also apologize to us for telling us bullsh!t.

and never ever do such stupid things again.

----

The other thread should be deleted by Ron or Simon. Because it mentions those french guitars from that seller together with words like Scammer etc.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 15:23:56

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to El Kiko)

quote:

This is complete rubbish , no one would send a guitar in the hope that they " may keep it and pay anyway ..." and " pay for fear as he was looking anyway ...??? Not realizing he is in Malyaysia even though his address is there and you send the guitar there ...!! as for the last part ..

YOu are contacting the seller , wait till he replies , you can be in contact with E Bay as well. to try to keep things straight....it seems you have made a bit of a mess for your self , but it is not the end of the world ..

quote:

I always desire to make mistakes but never seem to do it. That's why i am perfect all the time.

Not at the moment , you are -1 point ....for me

If it's rubbish then the seller is an idiot and deserves to lose the guitar. Sent to MALAYSIA to a stranger and never got the money first? If Kehati is lying to us and DID pay for it that is different. Sounds like someone wanted to unload a cheap guitar to me. If no pay great...then they can "go after him", more likely people would be scared of the threat and pay after receiving it by accident. Hence the ignored response to email.

About my other comment, it was a sarcastic reply to Kehati's inference that he made technical mistake rather then a "desire" mistake, as if any of us desire to make a mistake. Get it? geeez nevermind.

Keep the guitar kid and have your parents or wife pay for it. sheeeesh!!!

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 16:24:55

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

If it's rubbish then the seller is an idiot and deserves to lose the guitar. Sent to MALAYSIA to a stranger and never got the money first?
Ricardo

The world of flamenco guitars is a small world and usually nobody scams you (well if your name is not Ruben).
He got 100% feedback, probably never had any negative experience with any aficionado and simply trusted the buyer. Happened to me in Germany too, before i paid, the guitar was already sent and on his way to me. Many sellers do that and send you an invoice afterwards with 30 days time to pay. So its not about been stupid at all (imo)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 16:41:54

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Arash)

quote:

So its not about been stupid at all (imo)

I can understand if you have dealt with a person once or twice before, trusting them cuz you have insurance and stuff too, but for a stranger in a foreign country you have be an idiot and or desperate for cash. I know about scams and they DO happen.

Kehati said he made a buy now mistake in the other thread his concern was no response and everyone assured him the guitar would not be sent unless he paid. So here he is now. If HE was being lame and doesn't want the thing he bought, why embarrass himself on foro with all this???? Makes no sense to me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 16:47:52

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

I agree that sending to Malaysia without receiving payment first is a little weird.
But could also have been a mistake from the seller, maybe he mixed up different orders and thought that this guitar was already paid.
Anyway, i don't believe that Kehati made a mistake, because of the "several clicks before deal is done" issue.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 16:54:17

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash
The world of flamenco guitars is a small world and usually nobody scams you

Of course the last statement is not true (im waiting for the guy who offers a Conde or Reyes or whatever for 100,000 $), but we dont even know if the first statement isnt wrong either. I mean, are you sure this is a "flamenco guitar" at all? I dont know. Anyways, if the seller doesnt respond - which is equally bad as a scam in my eyes - then you have to pay it. And guys... it f'ing doesnt matter when the payment arrives. The seller has to deliver the goods, and the buyer the bucks.

well a little story...
not long ago it was very cold in Germany and the temperature in my room dropped because the isolation of the house is non-existent. I couldnt figure out how to increase the heater temperature so i bought an electrical heater. It arrived and it had a serious flaw so i couldnt use it. I asked my money back instead they just sent me a new one!! This process took 2 weeks and the wheather in Germany got alot warmer by then....

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 17:01:27

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Arash)

i think the title of this thread might say a lot more than just the words:

"You know what?The E bay guitar that I didnt pay a cent to the seller, arrived today! "

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 17:02:26

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to keith)

quote:

the seller is an idiot and deserves to lose the guitar.

No i dont think anyone deserves to loose a guitar , especially if they are an idiot ,
some people do trust and send stuff first . , and as mentioned they may do this as they have insurance , but they dont want to use it , as there premiums will go up considerably.
A true scam is that you pay money and get nothing at all , not even crap .
I have looked up the site this guitar comes from and I do not think it is a scam at all.

quote:

The seller has to deliver the goods, and the buyer the bucks.

This is a basic business principal

If kehati is genuine then he should learn a bit about how his computer and E bay etc work before he goes clicking around on the world thinking its OK //
however I still believe it can be sorted out , you have contacted both the seller and E bay now you wait a while to see who contacts you , some people may only check e mail once or twice a week ..

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 17:33:34

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to El Kiko)

quote:

If kehati is genuine then he should learn a bit about how his computer and E bay etc work before he goes clicking around on the world thinking its OK //

Sorry, but my 8 year old kid was playing vid games on the wife's Iphone and accidentally clicked and bought some ****. They HOPE this **** happens, thats why they make the clicking so easy. it is dangerous. The seller should have responded to the buyer that a mistake was made....ESPECIALLY after shipping the thing. Ridiculous...unless kehati is lying as I said.

PS I can't tell how many times I accidentally click on the darn Guitarrero video....man if simon made that thing a buy now on paypal link, I would have purchased like 80 of those vids

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 17:41:10

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
The seller should have responded to the buyer that a mistake was made....ESPECIALLY after shipping the thing. Ridiculous...

Law says its not ridiculous. He is not obliged to reply and he is not obliged to accept the return of the guitar, even if it was a mistake. When children buy things, which they are legally not allowed to buy then this is a completely other case. Well actually, this could be an option for kehati. He has to make the seller believe his kid bought the guitar not him, so the contract was illegal in the first place

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 18:55:50

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to XXX)

quote:

Well actually, this could be an option for kehati. He has to make the seller believe his kid bought the guitar not him, so the contract was illegal in the first place

Exactly. Not ridiculous??? Sheesh. This easy click **** is BS.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:03:18

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to XXX)

quote:

it f'ing doesnt matter when the payment arrives. The seller has to deliver the goods, and the buyer the bucks.

Arash, I have sold over 500 items on eBay and I have to disagree. If a seller doesn't receive cleared payment before sending the item eBay can do little to help them get their money. The people at eBay advise against sending an item before you are paid in full. This sort of situation usually works out unless the buyer or seller is so irresponsible that he is unable or unwilling to complete the transaction. I personally would NEVER send an item until I received payment and would file a claim to end the transaction at the earliest possible moment. Even after this is done a seller still has to maintain the item in case the "buyer" pays for it. This can go on for several weeks.

I noticed this line on the eBay listing: "Please email me if you intend to have the guitar shipped to you abroad, and for cost of shipping to other countries."

It seems that we don't know the whole story--and considering the source--we may never know. It really helps to understand the process and protect yourself in situations like this.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:06:44

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

Those of you who say its not a bid deal to click and not pay were NEVER on the other side of the business (as a seller). Waisting time, packing the item, driving to a post office, pay the shipment in advance, wait , no money, wait , no money, send several emails , no money. List the item again on ebay, pay again the ebay fees, etc etc...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:08:15

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

@PgH, while i agree with it, that was not my statement, you quoted someone else

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:10:12

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Arash)

quote:

@PgH, while i agree with it, that was not my statement, you quoted someone else

Lol--sorry for that, Arash. You and Deniz have similar PDL avatars. I wonder if it's from the same gig...

Maybe we should encourage kehati to begin his entry into the adult world and pay for the guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:17:15

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco
Arash, I have sold over 500 items on eBay and I have to disagree.

This is not a case to agree or not. Such a rule that the buyer has to send in the money BEFORE the item gets shipped does NOT EXIST. Thats all im trying to say. Regardless i know very well that it is common on ebay to do the payment first, just like it is normal in the real business worldto receive the goods, check them and THEN pay.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:20:21

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco
Lol--sorry for that, Arash. You and Deniz have similar PDL avatars. I wonder if it's from the same gig...

We will never know, because Paco wears the same clothes on EVERY gig

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:21:33

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

i have this sneaky feeling that the seller did not just up and ship a guitar clear across the world without being paid first. the seller runs a business and i would bet is not stupid enough to send a guitar across the globe without money being deposited in the bank.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:23:41

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

I noticed this line on the eBay listing: "Please email me if you intend to have the guitar shipped to you abroad, and for cost of shipping to other countries."

It seems that we don't know the whole story--and considering the source--we may never know. It really helps to understand the process and protect yourself in situations like this.

That changes things totally.

sounds like if the guitar was sent, this email was made so Kehati is lying to us about his mistake clicking finger.

So come clean man, DID you follow through and send email about shipping details? You must have cuz his only out of country options are Canada Austrailia and EU.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:24:47

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

If no pay great

No Pay, no Play...

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:29:50

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

I agree with what keith said in his first post.
and you know what? ever since Kehati's first topic on the foro, I thought there was something really sketchy about him.
I dont know what to believe out of the stuff he says, as there are things that he says that just dont add up and are hard to believe. besides, I always find his topic titles really annoying in a sense that he makes a big deal out of something that has a simple solution and wants so much attention to his threads..
anyway, what a waste of 30 mins reading this thread,I wont read his **** again

P.S. it really puzzles me how a guy like him is married and his children (?)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:32:22

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to XXX)

quote:

Such a rule that the buyer has to send in the money BEFORE the item gets shipped does NOT EXIST. Thats all im trying to say. Regardless i know very well that it is common on ebay to do the payment first, just like it is normal in the real business worldto receive the goods, check them and THEN pay.

The rule is if the buyer doesn't pay the seller does not have to ship. In this case the seller is not in violation of eBay's rules.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:37:14

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to XXX)

quote:

We will never know, because Paco wears the same clothes on EVERY gig

He might only own one shirt and one vest...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 19:40:12

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

Maybe we should encourage kehati to begin his entry into the adult world....

It's far too late for that Pgh_flamenco. If you recall his initial post a couple of months ago, he is (if I remember correctly) 38 years old, has a wife, does not work, and lives off his parents. He was whining because his parents would not finance his trip to Spain to study flamenco.

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 20:21:13

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco
The rule is if the buyer doesn't pay the seller does not have to ship. In this case the seller is not in violation of eBay's rules.

Sorry but where did i state something like that in the quote? IM just insisting on it because especially on ebay there are countless people (sellers included) who simply dont know the legal situation and simply ASSUME that the buyer always has to pay in advance, beecause they are used to do it this way (amateurs). Hence such things become a "mythos", when it is just so easy to read things like that up in the law. Buyer and seller are free to arrange payment and shipment AS THEY WISH. Of course im talking about GErmany only, but i have no reason to assume that this is extremely different in US or elsewhere.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 20:40:23

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

They have been selling these guitars for sometime now. There are plenty of positive feedbacks from people who have bought these, although we don't know if the guitars are any good or not or people who have bought them are qualified to tell the difference.

However most people have left positive feedback on their well packed speedy shipment. I have bought many 'buy it now' stuff on eBay; it's not press a single button thing at all. Also, when you register with eBay you need to register your bank account details, so I think the seller can get eBay on the case and get their money.

A

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 20:50:04

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to XXX)

quote:

Sorry but where did i state something like that in the quote? IM just insisting on it because especially on ebay there are countless people (sellers included) who simply dont know the legal situation and simply ASSUME that the buyer always has to pay in advance, beecause they are used to do it this way (amateurs). Hence such things become a "mythos", when it is just so easy to read things like that up in the law. Buyer and seller are free to arrange payment and shipment AS THEY WISH. Of course im talking about GErmany only, but i have no reason to assume that this is extremely different in US or elsewhere.

I didn't attribute this to you. It's my understanding of eBay's policy. People are free to do as they wish when completing a transaction. A protocol is necessary because when things don't work out either person might appeal to a third party for assistance. This isn't the same as a face-to-face sale where the buyer can evaluate the item in person.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 22:01:19

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: You know what?The E bay guitar t... (in reply to BarkellWH)

quote:

It's far too late for that Pgh_flamenco. If you recall his initial post a couple of months ago, he is (if I remember correctly) 38 years old, has a wife, does not work, and lives off his parents. He was whining because his parents would not finance his trip to Spain to study flamenco.

Bill

Thirty-eight going on 13. So why are we wasting our time on this?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2012 22:03:18

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