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flemenco guitarist vs Classical guitarist
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estebanana
Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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 RE: flemenco guitarist vs Classical ... (in reply to erictjie)
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What I think is funny is that there is so much classicial guitar music based on flamenco "sound" and it is watered down. I always wince when a classical player can't perform a gutsy well intentioned rasgueado in a piece that is imitative of flamenco guitar.
But it does not stop there, many pieces in the 19th century violin repertoire were based on Gypsy fiddling in Eastern Europe. They "cleaned up" the melody and added Western harmony to the accompaniment parts in the orchestra or ensemble. You can hear it as far back as in Haydn string quartets. If you get a gutsy violinist playing it the origin shines through, but often you get a pallid version of some Gypsy violining. When composers like Shostakovich, Bartok and Kodaly came along and wrote more ruthlesselsy the stuff really works.
Most classical music up to mid twentieth century is based on a component of harmonized folk and vernacular music, well much of the time. Listen to the Kodaly Sonata for Unaccompanied Cello....finally does justice to where the sources are. Well except that ruthless 19th century mothers like Beethoven actually would drive the violinists wild by making the parts really asskickingly difficult. He made them work for that sound.
Segovia had the ego and mission of a concert solo violinist, but he had to say a lot of down talking stuff about folk music to separate himself from flamencos and be seen up in the violinist leagues. There are lots of reasons why Segovia had to separate himself that had to do with public perception of flamenco in Spain. He needed to be identified with Bach Beethoven and Brahms in order to have his career. I personally think that is why he played a German made guitar at one point; I think unconsciously he was drawing himself closer to being in the more accepted and dominant German/Austrian music tradition. His guitar was from the land of Mozart and Bach. The public took in Segovia's rap quite zealously and for much of the last part of the twentieth century really thought they had good taste for it. I think that stigma has run it's course and any good classical guitarist with two brain cells to rub together understands that top flamenco players are substantive hard working high level musicians on par with the best violinists.
If a classical guitar student or mid level or advanced player gives a flamenco student a hard time, that flamenco person should just roll their eyes at the poor misinformed beast. Just remember the primary source material for much of the Iberian sounding classical guitar pieces is "borrowed" without much credit from flamenco and other forms.
Also show me classical guitarist who has an alzapua worth a turd. If they do it's because they worked on flamenco and they know how difficult it is to play well.
The thing is look all through any part of classical music and you'll find many influences. They did not invent it all, with the exception of the great symphonists who developed the possibilties in orchestras of that enormous envelope of sound, you find much that is in chamber music is taken from native and vernacular sources. So don't be angry o dismayed by classical guitarists, just be smarter, study deeper and don't worry about that old tired canard of classical guitar higher majesty.
And lastly, when you find a good classical guitarist it is sheer delight to listen, right?
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 18 2012 20:10:04
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: flemenco guitarist vs Classical ... (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
Sorry to disappoint any other genre of guitarists out there...but there is no other guitar music as advanced and complex as Flamenco.....
I take a back seat to no one in my love and appreciation of flamenco. Nevertheless, the statement that "there is no other guitar music as advanced and complex as flamenco" would never hold up to scrutiny. Classical guitar is just as (and in some cases, perhaps more) complex as flamenco. As for your use of the term "advanced," what do you mean flamenco is more "advanced" than classical, jazz, or any other guitar music? Define your use of the term "advanced," and why flamenco is more "advanced" than other genres.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 19 2012 9:54:01
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