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Help with marianas   You are logged in as Guest
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KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

Help with marianas 

I am working on this palo at the moment and it's not one i have had much contact with. I have been listening to various videos on you tube. The pulse feels like a tientos in E.

Who pioneered this cante? Who's version are singers basing theirs upon?

The accompaniment seems to be mainly E and F with a section moving to A and dminor at the beginning. Then some changes to G and C throughout. It often ends with the same section por tangos.

In each version i have watched, the guitarists seem to interpret the cante a little differently depending on the singer.

Does anyone have any information regarding the traditional structure of this palo?

The info i've found is all in spanish so it's difficult for me to understand.

The reason I'm asking is i will be working with a singer that knows this palo. So it would be nice to be able to play it with her if she wants to sing it:-)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 5:01:08
 
srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Help with marianas (in reply to KMMI77

Bernardo el de los Lobitos is one of the first to record it:



Yo vengo de Hungaria,
con mi Mariana
me busco la via.
Sube, Mariana, sube
por aquellas montanitas
arriba sube Mariana,
Mariana macarone,
mi arma te quiero.

No pegarle, por Dios, mas palitos
a la Mariana
porque la pobrecita era
manquita y coja,
coja, lele, lele.

Salga la luna,
la luna y el sol,
si quieres que yo a ti te quiera
ponme fianza,
de tu querer no me fio,
carne de mis carnes,
porque eres muy falsa.

There's another old version by Nino de las Marianas with Ramon Montoya, but the recording is rough and probably not of much use if you're trying to figure out the guitar part. Miguel Vargas is supposed to have recorded a notable version, but I can't find it on youtube.

Menese's a good source for orthadox versions of old cantes, and he seems to have been fond of this one:



As far as structure goes, I think it started out as a folksly sort of thing that people eventually adapted to a tientos compas, so its structure may be a bit open to individual interpretation from singer to singer. I dunno. Good luck.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 6:42:59
 
davidheis_24

 

Posts: 132
Joined: Feb. 4 2011
 

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Sep. 10 2013 23:41:10
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 6:53:54
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Help with marianas (in reply to srshea

Thanks for the links and info srshea,

I think i am even more confused after listening to those examples. Is there a version that you know of that clearly defines what it has evolved in to? or what is standard among guitarists.

I feel like a lot of this cante is open to the singers interpretation and the guitarist is using his ear as best he can to follow? It would be nice to be shown a version that i can base the structure upon.

David, thanks for the info mate!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 11:28:57
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1763
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Help with marianas (in reply to KMMI77

There's a version by La Sayago on Ramón de Algeciras's entry in the Grandes Guitarras del flamenco series:

http://www.amazon.com/Grandes-Guitarras-Flamenco-Ramon-Algeciras/dp/B00007M59D/ref=sr_1_11?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1328887791&sr=1-11

There’s a version by José Menese on the Gran antología flamenca.

And Sabicas recorded an instrumental version on Gypsy Flamenco.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Danza-De-Las-Marianas/dp/B005XW9YEI/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1328888207&sr=1-9

Hope this helps.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 14:39:14
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Help with marianas (in reply to KMMI77

Yes this is true , I was reading some things for you in Spanish and I translated few bits for you from a a Spanish flamenco site it says something like this .....

The marianas are considered like sort derived from the flamenco tangos, and more concretely from the tientos , with long verses of different measures that conclude with a refrain. Some theoreticians consider the marianas to be a type of "free" singing. Domingo Manfredi, in his work says that: " It is in his architecture and its tonic a great fandango…

And also this....

According to documents by Jose Luis Lopez Benitez (" Niño de las Marianas") from the well-known flamencologist Anselmo González Climent, the flamenco singer says: " He is such a famous singer I was told that he got the name of " cante de las marianas". The original idea came while listening to some Hungarians as they danced and sang with the pandero,( This is a percussion instrument , I think) they travelled around Andalusia. Listening to that exotic music , I gave myself the task to "aflamencar" those songs and look for appropriate words for them. At the outset, I did not know the best way to do this, then later it occured to me that. Luis Lopez already had a similar style so I attributed the stly more to him . It would always be him known in the flamenco world as " Niño de las Marianas".

The stuff about his goes on for many pages so , good luck with that , this is a very small bit .......

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 20:52:09
 
srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Help with marianas (in reply to KMMI77

quote:

Is there a version that you know of that clearly defines what it has evolved in to? or what is standard among guitarists.


Sorry, man. The above post constitutes the sum total of what I know about this cante. The Miguel Vargas one is called Entorna la Puerta. Menese also recorded it on his record ‘A Fransisco’, which I’m pretty sure I have at home, so I’ll check for that this evening. I can’t find either recording on youtube. Sorry I can’t be of more help, but maybe one of the hardcore cante nerds will chime in…

Have you asked your singer where she learned it from? If she didn’t learn it direct from a teacher then she probably picked it up from a recording that she might be able to steer you toward.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 22:02:53
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Help with marianas (in reply to KMMI77

Hey paul,

Thanks for taking the time to share those links. I think my dad has that sabicas record.

Riko-kiko,

Thank you for translating those sections. They helped confirm my free singing suspicions. After listening to a few versions of the same letra, hearing the singers and guitarists changing chords in different places left me feeling unsure.

Srshea, I have only exchanged one email with her so far. And we mainly discussed capo positions for other palos. At the end of the email she mentioned that she likes to sing marianas as well. I looked her name up on you tube and found this version of her singing it. So that will help me lots



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2012 22:27:51
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Help with marianas (in reply to KMMI77

i have just discovered this palo today through this video:


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 15:34:16

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Help with marianas (in reply to KMMI77

For a second there, i thought you needed help with marajuanas.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 22:47:21
 
kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009
 

RE: Help with marianas (in reply to ToddK

quote:

help with marajuanas.

its the same, flamenco is a drug

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2012 23:31:22
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