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i finger problem
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HolyEvil
Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia
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 i finger problem
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hey there guys, i've discovered a problem with my i finger when I play arps,
if I play a note with my P or A, the i would curl up a little, then stays there..
so if I go P, A, P, A, P, A the i would be pretty curled.. I have to look at it and concentrate for it not to curl much.. and even if I look, it still curls sometimes then relaxes.
This happens in arp playing cuz I try to find out why I'm missing the last i in a p-i-m-a-m-i arp.
any suggestions here?
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Date Jan. 28 2012 3:18:45
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: i finger problem (in reply to HolyEvil)
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Yep, Orson makes sense.
The problem you describe seems to be rooted in the way of execution.
I suppose the first and second diggit of your i finger to be the main executing limbs.
As has been suggested, slow down and start out new.
Imagine the finger(s) to be dead ( visible as only slightly bended. - If you want to know how poise looks like, watch your hand when laying down with your arm naturally rested [ ellbow towards floor, palm facing upwards ] and relax your hand. You´ll see that the fingers will not straighten out completely, but be slightly curled in. That´s poise.)
Imagine them dead and move them from the knuckle.
Active for plucking the string, passive for return to poise.
-
Doit, ... * ( censored by author  ).
And once again, guys, if Michelangelo had been limping, would it mean that limping helps with sculpture?
You may adore what some can do despite physiological self-hindering, but may realize in the same time that not all they manage to overcome to be technically recommendable.
Can you see the rational difference there?
Ruphus
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Date Jan. 28 2012 13:06:48
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HolyEvil
Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia
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RE: i finger problem (in reply to HolyEvil)
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I posted this reply in the delcamp forum and I'm reposting it now.
------------------
Thank you ALL for the replies.. and it really helped alot..
I found out what cause the i finger to curl when I play P, it's due to the fact that I play flamenco and when we play thumb melodies, I rest my m finger on the high e, and about a couple of months ago I decided to rather let my i finger hand loosely by m, I'll get it raised/curl slightly, and I think this is the cause of my i finger raising when I play p, I've tried to play some thumb melodies with the i resting on the high e for some time and it seems to have stopped the i from self curling much.
The i curling with the a finger playing is now a little less, i tried by playing p i m a m i with the i finger touching the 3rd string slightly when the a strike, and when I preplant the m, the i is slightly touching the 3rd string.
Is this a good way to 'train' the i to extend (by touching the 3rd string) after I strike with the a?
If the i is not touching the 3rd string, there would still be movement but as I'm pretty much concentratin on it and looking at it, the i would still move slightly.
I've also tried to teach my i not to follow through with such a great distance when I play the i, and to relax during the plant of my m finger. is this good training as well?
I was really scared that it's this focal dystonia that I spent quite a lot of time to cure this i finger movement.. it seems to be working.. hope it stays this way..
thanks all!! very much!
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Date Jan. 29 2012 22:57:46
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HolyEvil
Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia
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RE: i finger problem (in reply to HolyEvil)
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update to add on to elie's thread on finger problems. hope this would help
it's Feb 2013, about 1 year after I have discovered my problem.
I still have problems doing a fast pimami arppegio.
imagine if it's quarter notes.
1 2 3 4, 2 2 3 4 @ about 110 bpm
P i m a m i
I feel it's not moving smoothly from the last m to the last i.
but it is ALOT better than what it was. I can play music slowly now..
I use to be unable to do eg Pamiami, now I can do it.. my problem is only with pimami
and alternating i and m in free strokes arppegios.
I spent about the whole last year just practicing arppegios slowly..
I found that when I plucked i and m together and try to return the fingers to the strings, only m would move and i would be stuck there.. So I did it VERY slowly, pluck and release, pluck and release.
I did alot of exercise on P i m a. Play P, then plant i, play i, plant m, relax i, play m, plant a.
With my pami, I rested my i on the 3rd string while I practice the arppegios.
I did alot of i, a, i, a with m resting on the 2nd string, then i, a, i, a with m not resting on hte 2nd string.
I did alot of resting i on 1st string for thumb passages and on the 3rd string while playing thumb passages which leads to arppegios.
Practice alternating i, m, a, m, ion 1 string (1st - 3rd), playing i, relaxing it to original position, then playing m. and doing the same with i and a.
Doing it with all the combos ima, iam, mai, mia, ami, aim.
and with alternation without relaxing it to original position prior to the next finger strike
eg ia.
strike with i, while i is bent, strike with a while returning i to original position
But I still have problems alternatin i,m this way but hopefully it'll be solved in a few months time.
Another practice is when playing eg i, m or i, a, when m or a is striking, i would uncurl the 2nd joint by pushing on the string it just struck, kinda like a reverse arppegio striking with the finger nails. I practice with i floating and also with i resting on the string after the reverse arppegio thing with the nail.
A funny thing is that I have problems with continous ami, ami, ami until a few days ago where I did something different.
I practiced alot of play a, plant m, play m, plant i, play i, plant a etc etc.
BUT i've discovered when going fast, when I have finished playing amia, when I plant my m, my i finger stop the movement to it's original position. SO that means when my m stops moving, my i stops too. To get over this, I play amiamiami rolls this way.
either planting on a, or no planting at all, or planting a and i only (this is the hardest among the 3). I prefer planting only a or no plant at all.
feel free to ask any questions.
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Date Mar. 21 2013 12:05:30
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Elie
Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
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RE: i finger problem (in reply to HolyEvil)
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thank you holyevil for sharing your experience
quote:
I did alot of i, a, i, a with m resting on the 2nd string, then i, a, i, a with m not resting on hte 2nd string.
I assume that you're playing i, a, i, a on the 1st string while resting the m on the 2nd
I didn't exactly understand why you are doing this, I feel it might harm you instead of fixing the problem
I found that playing picado using both Apoyando or Tirando something like this (considering the capital letters are apoyando):
I m i M i m I m i M i m ( continuous ) would help my fingers (i-m) to respond well
also accenting some notes (playing heavy apoyando strokes) while both fingers are playing apoyando helped me to get more control over my fingers something like :
M I M I M I M I M I M I M I M ...... notes in red are played using heavy appoyando
try those as we both share the problem of having difficulties alternating i - m
cheers mate
_____________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/GuitarristaAD
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Date Mar. 21 2013 17:00:47
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HolyEvil
Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia
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RE: i finger problem (in reply to Elie)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elie
thank you holyevil for sharing your experience
quote:
I did alot of i, a, i, a with m resting on the 2nd string, then i, a, i, a with m not resting on hte 2nd string.
I assume that you're playing i, a, i, a on the 1st string while resting the m on the 2nd
I didn't exactly understand why you are doing this, I feel it might harm you instead of fixing the problem
I forgot to specify that when I practice i a i a with m finger resting, I am practicing it with 1st and 3rd string, with m on the 2nd string.
when I practice i a i a on a single string, I do not rest the m string.
And I agree with not resting m on the 2nd string if we are playing on the 1st string only. DEF would give us problems.
The only time when I rest a finger on the lower string while playing on a single string is when I train m a, a on 1st, m on 2nd, i resting on the 3rd or
m and a on 1st, i on 2nd (never on the 3rd as I feel it creates too much of finger flextion for the i finger.
quote:
I found that playing picado using both Apoyando or Tirando something like this (considering the capital letters are apoyando):
I m i M i m I m i M i m ( continuous ) would help my fingers (i-m) to respond well
when you do this, do you change your hand position slightly to the picado position or try to keep it in the arppegio position? My positions are very slightly different, but I can keep it in the arppegio position to play 1 or 2 notes in picado. which do you do?
quote:
also accenting some notes (playing heavy apoyando strokes) while both fingers are playing apoyando helped me to get more control over my fingers something like :
M I M I M I M I M I M I M I M ...... notes in red are played using heavy appoyando
try those as we both share the problem of having difficulties alternating i - m
cheers mate
I do the alternating thing just to teach my fingers to be allowed to lead with different fingers, but I'll try this emphasising thing. thanks for the advice Elie!
may we both get there again!
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Date Mar. 21 2013 23:40:32
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HolyEvil
Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia
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RE: i finger problem (in reply to Elie)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elie
another question please
how do your fingers respond to tapping on a string without playing ?
if it's picado style tapping, it's ok..
but if it's arppegio style tapping, not so good.
but it's all depends on how curled my fingers are, the more curled they are, the harder it is the alternate i and m.
if keeping my P on 6th, arppegio i and m,
all on 1st , good
i on 2nd, m on 1st, good
and the proficiency keeps dropping the lower I go.
when it goes to
all on 4th, ok-ish
i on 5th, m on 4th or all on 5th = bad.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 25 2013 2:32:44
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