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jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

multiple guitars 

As most of you know I was a flamenco guitarist before I was a luthier. As a woodworker since my very early years I became interested in guitar making primarily with the intent of building a guitar for myself since my experience with ordering guitars from Spanish luthiers had yelded miserable results.

Making guitars became a cornucopia of variations in guitars but in over fifty years of playing and building I never played anything but the current favorite. When a new one came along that was better I would switch with no compunction and sell the old favorite at a discount to some lucky client. I've never understood why a person would want more than one guitar (ok, two if you also play classical). Collectors are complete puzzle to me. Sorry if I offended anyone, no malice intended.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2012 23:22:35
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

I am the same. It was just some months i had 2 flamenco guitars. It was when i bought my new guitar, which was unplayed. First i wasnt sure to keep it. THen it became better insound and i sold my old one. Not only i have no desire to posses multiple guitars, as a student i rather invest the money in other things.
And to be honest, getting to know a guitar actually takes lot of time. Maybe 6 months? For me this is the most interesting in guitar playing and with multiple guitars i would need to play alot more hours per day to get the same learning curve.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2012 23:29:13
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3144
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

I can understand having two flamenco guitars: One as your top-of-the-line that you and you alone play and want to keep in good shape, and one to take to the beach, allow others to play, and generally enjoy without suffering pain if it gets a nick now and then.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 0:57:56
 
rodpacheco

 

Posts: 80
Joined: Apr. 19 2010
From: Mexico

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

I was watching this videos... again. At the moment I think I would like to have a few, 4 or 5. But I think maybe a Guitarist/Luthier would more easily prefer to have a current favorite because he is constantly aiming for better guitars.

But as me as guitarist, in general, I would enjoy for Flamenco guitars to have a few to go back to and perhaps for different situations. The tension, and individual quality of each guitar as that man in the video suggests. Maybe different tunings in different guitars is a good way to be open to different "composing" ideas.


Bien allí, Maria!!


  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 1:02:13
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1343
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

quote:

I've never understood why a person would want more than one guitar


No two are alike. Even with electric guitars--same production run, pickups and bridge--natural materials like wood always create some tonal variation. Seems like every time I buy a new guitar that initially sounds better than my current favorite a few days or weeks pass and then I am back to being impressed by my old guitar. I don't want to own a lot of guitars, but I usually end up missing the ones I've sold. This is true even for guitars that weren't a good match for me.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 1:34:55
 
erictjie

 

Posts: 163
Joined: Apr. 11 2011
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

even after 7 guitars , never enough
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 2:15:32
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

Classical guitarists need more than one guitar because certain pieces fit one guitar better than another.

Flamenco guitarists need more than one so that when a dancer throws her Gallardo through the Conde' he can grab the Barba and finish the gig.

Collectors simply have a complex. Better not to question why.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 2:39:17
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

quote:

Collectors are complete puzzle to me


I have to agree John.
At the moment I find myself with three of my own plus a Ricardo Sanchis Carpio. Its just too many. I feel i have to play them all every day.
Two is enough I think.

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Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 7:15:06
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

I think the best for all players would be to have a lot guitars and buy them all from me.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 7:38:07
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

++ to estebanana's answer

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 8:28:51
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

As can be observed here on the foro, some people easily part with guitars even considerably below value; which I admire.

My personal and weird motto has been: Rather than selling far below value give away as a gift.
The latter, either when coming accross someone I like who is playing on a dud, or someone talented who deserves a better instrument than what he has.

That way six guitars have been given away over the years, and yet there remain 11 axes in my possession ( inlcuding the steelers and a banjo).
Most of them have some interesting story and memento to them, which admittedly makes it a bit hard to see them go ( and which will be why at least my very first and oldest of decent specimens shall stay, eventhough for no practical reason).

Most clearly differ from each other / have their individual strengths. Yet, since the time when I started consciously appreciating depth of tone, other than keeping one as a beater, there´s no reason for retaining a handful of them. And in a way it produces a kind of guilty feeling to have instruments stored that you hardly play anymore, whilst there being folks out there with a passion who only can´t afford a better guitar.

Actually, situated in a country where decent to good guitars are pretty rarely found, I could probably easily find opportunities to sell them without loss, or even at return. But as trading has ever since felt clumsy and strange to me, I´ll wait until next either simpaticos or talented aficionados come in sight, to pass on to them for free, - or maybe this time for small change.

For, until now I had to realize that most of freely presented guitars had been under appreciated and badly beaten up / neglected in a blink.
Obviously, many can either only appreciate when things command accordingly, or trivially assume trash what´s been given away for nada.

Just my 2cents in reflection of indeed too many guitars.

Ruphus

PS:
There exist more basic reason for several guitars than mentioned above.
# Romantic type
# Pristine type
# Beater

Covering classical and flamenco, that could be 6 or at least 5 distinct guitars already.
Just saying.

PS2:
There´s who consider themselves "lo-fi", too.
I know a band who just don´t want better sound ( and tracked another band once who can´t hear the difference - apart of their bass player).
And then there´s one of my cousins who is a multiple-instrument player and fine guitairst.
I used to encourage him to get himself a better specimen; in the times when he was a millionaire.
But he was never even curious to check out; saying to be satisfied as is with his student level guitar.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 11:10:31
 
Arash

Posts: 4409
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

a Conde Negra and a Conde blanca.
thats all you need

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 11:37:11
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

I used to encourage him to get himself a better specimen; in the times when he was a millionaire.


Surely he didnt make millions by playing guitar, otherwise we would have known him, did he?

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 12:32:09
 
gbv1158

 

Posts: 404
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Flamenco guitarists need more than one


absolutely ! a negra and a blanca!

:-),
ciao
giambattista
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 12:45:46
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to jshelton5040

[Deleted by Admins]

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 13:45:59
 
Derek Woulds

Posts: 30
Joined: Jun. 23 2011
From: Suffolk

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

There is an old saying from my rock band days, "You can never have too many guitars".
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 14:09:38
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

Surely he didnt make millions by playing guitar, otherwise we would have known him, did he?


No. He got his money from being international biznazman.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rumbaking

Blanca, Negra, Beater guitar (Yamaha or Cordoba)



Why just "Yamaha or Cordoba"?

There a bunch of factory productions that can deliver comparably pretty well.
Like Burguet and others. I once fetched a dirt cheap Hernandez, which despite of being a tad dull, as entry level often is, was exceptionally flamenco sounding.
Next, there is a brand named "Serena" of which I bought two classical guitars, with their transparency and balance performing heads and shoulders above their shelfs standard. ( Killing a whole batch of Yamahas that were labelled up to ~ three times as much.) Should Serena make flamencas too, it would likely turn out to be good choice.

And finally, there are at times exceptional items to be found among your no-name Chinese productions. Last time praised by a specialist on guitar history, who had smiled at me only a couple of years before, when I had mentioned such existing lucky strikes.

With the exception of "Serena"s, which to my limited experience appear to be relatively consitent with their bang for the buck production, I would recommend to dissmiss labels and just frisk through the shelves of mass production, when after an inexpensive guitar.

....

Best of all bang for the buck options naturally would be to invest a bit more and go for handmade guitars of the luthiers here like Stephen, Anders, Andy & co. who obviously offer opportunity that hardly any conventional shops choice can match; but that would be way out of the beater category, naturally.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 14:27:34
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Ruphus

[Deleted by Admins]

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 15:36:35
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

I think the best for all players would be to have a lot guitars and buy them all from me.


And me

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 16:14:36
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 711
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

I would like to add to the excuses for having more than one guitar. My favourite guitar is a fairly lightly built peghead. When I have to use alternative tunings on stage the guitar takes some time to settle down and the tuning drifts a little. I haven't mastered the art of re-tuning a peghead while continuing to play so I stick a second guitar on a stand ready and waiting.

I would like to know if John has such a full order book that he is trying to ease the pressure a bit.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 16:21:38
 
Shawn Brock

 

Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

I think 3 flamenco guitars are a good number if a person is trying to be practical about things. You need a good blanca, a good negra and the ever popular beater... My only problem is when I see a well made guitar going for less than half of what' its worth, I start feeling like I need to rescue it... Then before I know it I have more guitars than what I need. I also have a hard time keeping in mind that my beater guitar is just that, and I'll start to think, oh wow, this guy is selling a $3000 guitar for $1000, for that price I could resale it or turn it into my beater guitar. And maybe I'm wrong, but it seems we have more quality makers now than ever before, and that just makes a lot of us want to try their guitars. Being that its almost impossible to try their guitars without buying one, we are trapped again. I think that those who only play 1 or 2 guitars, are probably better players on their instrument. If a guy has been playing the same guitar for 10 years, he knows what he can get out of it, and he knows how to get it. When playing the same instrument all of the time it almost becomes an extension of your body and there becomes an understanding between player and guitar that isn't realized by those who have a room full of flamenco guitars. I know from experience that having to many guitars isn't good for the player or the instruments. They never get played enough, and the player never brings out the full potential of each guitar. I'm guilty of this charge...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 16:44:43
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3144
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Arash

quote:

a Conde Negra and a Conde blanca.
thats all you need


I don't want to start an argument or a debate, as I, too, used to think one should possess (and I still possess) a blanca and a negra. I have since evolved back to where I was at the beginning and now think that all I want are blancas. After several years, I have concluded that negras are just classicals with a low setup. In my opinion (and it is only my opinion), nothing beats the percussive, dry sound of a well-played blanca. That, to me, is real flamenco.

As a result, I plan to sell my negra and keep my two remaining blancas. One for my own enjoyment and one for the beach.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 17:36:34
 
Arash

Posts: 4409
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH

I have concluded that negras are just classicals with a low setup.

Cheers,

Bill


Have you ever played a Conde Negra?
I agree with you that 99% of the Negras out there are what you described as classicals with a low setup (even the Sanchis lopez i had was more like this), but Condes are different.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 18:08:49
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to RobJe

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobJe

I would like to know if John has such a full order book that he is trying to ease the pressure a bit.

One can never have too many bottles of wine or too many orders.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 18:11:48
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 711
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

quote:

One can never have too many bottles of wine or too many orders.


I've never understood why a person would want more than one bottle of wine (ok, two if you are thirsty). Wine collectors are complete puzzle to me.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 18:26:43
 
Arash

Posts: 4409
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

Each one of us needs more than 1 guitar, but these guys share one guitar together



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 18:29:15
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Arash

quote:

I agree with you that 99% of the Negras out there are what you described as classicals with a low setup (even the Sanchis lopez i had was more like this), but Condes are different.


Yeah sure Conde's are different. Until you find another negra that sounds like a collection of slack ass rubber bands wrapped around a coffee can.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 19:14:55
 
gbv1158

 

Posts: 404
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Arash

quote:

99% of the Negras out there are what you described as classicals with a low setup


....well...that means I am in that 1% with my "preciosa negrita" ( thanks Anders! ) :-)

any way, a good flamenco negra is ABSOLUTELY NOT like a classsical with low setup..., my classical guitar is another thing .... "sound qualities" and "playability" are "ANOTHER musical planet".

ciao
giambattista
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 19:43:58
 
sig

 

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

John,
Would it be possible that since you are a luthier, you are better able to "slake" your G.A.S. more easily than the rest of us? I know how I am at the music store or when I get a chance to play a great instrument. Man, my head starts to spin and I get all excited about finding another great sounding/playing guitar. I know my Culpepper is a fine instrument and some days it sounds wonderful then on other days i'm looking for a different sound or feel. Not that I would ever sell it but when G.A.S. hits look out!!

So, can a person have too many guitars? I think not but I can understand how a person would only want to have 1 so they can be more intimate with its feel, pulsation or sound. I can see how someone would want to be a collector, the classical guitar is a beautiful shape, much like a woman, curvy and seductive, just calling us to pick it up and have a strum :) Sorry ladies, no disrespect to those of you reading this but I think the comparison is accurate, at least from my male perspective!
Sig--
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2012 21:31:44
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to sig

quote:

ORIGINAL: sig
I think not but I can understand how a person would only want to have 1 so they can be more intimate with its feel, pulsation or sound. Sig--

With me it was never anything like that. Simply put I always felt if I have this one to play why would I want to play that one. Amazing how a guitar that you love one day can become instantly worthless to you when you make one that's better. I speak of this in the past tense since I can't play guitar anymore due to arthritis but I do have two beautiful pianos and three tractors so I guess I'm not immune to the collector bug.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2012 0:29:34
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