'78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale

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gitanillotomillo

Posts: 29
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
From: Holland

'78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale

For sale '78 Manuel Reyes Blanca flamenco guitar. Specs:

Top: spruce
Back and sides: Royal Spanish Cypress
Bindings and bridge: Brazillian rosewood
Tuning pegs
Nut width: 54mm
Action at 12th fret: 3mm
Scale length: 655mm
French polish
No cracks or repairs
Used intensively during the past 33 years, shows a lot of playing wear. Great condition and of course great sound. Great price too!

Cheers,

Thijmen

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2012 17:26:41

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

how much??
can you show pictures/video/sound?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2012 2:44:00

gitanillotomillo

Posts: 29
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
From: Holland

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

Asking price: 9900 euros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2012 6:53:03

Turner

Posts: 81
Joined: Nov. 5 2011

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

Excuse my ignorance but what is 'Royal Spanish Cypress' compared to the usual 'Spanish Cypress'?

Thanks.

Good looking guitar though, what I can see there.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2012 20:02:33

gitanillotomillo

Posts: 29
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
From: Holland

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to Turner)

It sounds nicer......(and more expensive)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2012 20:30:04

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

quote:

Excuse my ignorance but what is 'Royal Spanish Cypress' compared to the usual 'Spanish Cypress'?

It means the King cut the tree down.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2012 20:44:37

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

It means it came from trees in a forest reserve of the King.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2012 21:13:21

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

It means it came from trees in a forest reserve of the King.

So it is not a measure of wood quality but just expense?

(Sorry to hijack your sales thread. Good luck with the sale. Looks like a good guitar at a fair price for someone in the market for a Reyes)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2012 22:17:31

Turner

Posts: 81
Joined: Nov. 5 2011

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

Thanks guys, learning all the time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2012 17:21:22

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

quote:

It means it came from trees in a forest reserve of the King.

So it is not a measure of wood quality but just expense?

Received wisdom passed on to guitar makers through the years is that there is or was a forest near Madrid ( or maybe someplace in the south, it was never clear to me) that was a hunting preserve of the king. Some luthiers were granted permission to cut some of the trees, or at least glean logs of felled trees in that forest. I've heard over the years that among the luthers granted access to these logs as Archangel and the Bros. Conde' - it's not really anything that was documented and may in the end just be a story or a myth- it's kind of difficult to prove.

Spanish Cypress is not really Spanish Cypress either- it just means it's the same speices of Cypress that grows along the Mediterranian from Turkey to Spain and can be found in Italy was well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupressus_sempervirens

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2012 19:13:03

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

Very little of the "Spanish" cypress used in flamenco guitars in the last 30 years or so actually came from Spain. As Stephen pointed out, Cupressus sempervirens grows all around the Mediterranean with Italy and Turkey being the primary suppliers.
The late Pablo Contreras told me that the nicest cypress he'd seen in recent years came from Tunisia on the northern Mediterranean coast of Africa.
That "royal" nonsense is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. One almost plausible story I heard was that this term was originally used for a very small amount of instrument grade wood salvaged from windfall trees from the grounds of the summer palace at Aranjuez but I've never heard of any documentation. Not that it would really matter in the grand scheme of things. It's still just wood and calling it "royal" or some other silly name doesn't make it any better. There is no magic wood.
I'm still waiting for a claim that it was salvaged from the roof beams of the sultan's private outhouse at the Alhambra.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2012 21:57:21

gitanillotomillo

Posts: 29
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
From: Holland

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2012 21:00:53

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

Nice guitar and excelente playing man.
Good luck with the sale.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2012 21:25:32

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to Arash)

ahh you are the guy with the most famous flamenco guitar

and is that you in the Moraito (rip) masterclass?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2012 21:30:50

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

quote:

Asking price: 9900 euros

If a footmassage is included I might think about it. But not just a footmassage. I mean a really good...footmassage.

Ok jokes aside. Looks good. But I have not that much money. I´m sure you´ll find somebody. Reyes is awesome.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2012 22:11:46

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

u play well mate..

good luck with the sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 1:06:35

gitanillotomillo

Posts: 29
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
From: Holland

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to Arash)

Hi Arash,

I was very lucky to be on stage with one of the most important and fun flamenco players on the globe just one year before his passing. Moraito is really a nice guy to hang around with. He enjoyed life to the fullest! I am very greatful for this moment.

Cheers,

Thijmen

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 6:14:46

Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

Very little of the "Spanish" cypress used in flamenco guitars in the last 30 years or so actually came from Spain.

Only Conde Hermanos guitars use this. it's orange like a parking cone.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 7:20:44

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 27 2012 8:39:37

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 8:37:22

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Very little of the "Spanish" cypress used in flamenco guitars in the last 30 years or so actually came from Spain.

Only Conde Hermanos guitars use this. it's orange like a parking cone.

even more orange ;)

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 8:38:59

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

Ole! Thijmen I enjoyed your solea. Good luck with the sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 13:20:22

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

hey Thijmen,
it's great to have you here on the foro ... welcome !
you and your playing have always caught my attention

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 13:38:46

Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Very little of the "Spanish" cypress used in flamenco guitars in the last 30 years or so actually came from Spain.

Only Conde Hermanos guitars use this. it's orange like a parking cone.

even more orange ;)

Ha ha great! The reason luthiers don't like working with it is because after some hours of staring at it, everything else looks florescent green for a while. The conde brothers have special goggles do deal with this problem.

Ricardo

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 15:47:24

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

I can imagine them perhaps needing the goggles....if they actually made those hideous orange guitars themselves that is.
So I guess that must be some kind of orange "Royal" spruce that they use for tops, eh?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 17:07:52

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

hmm I thought about the guitar, the price and the maker. I can´t just sit here and watch that. I need to talk about my concerns about that pricing in a peaceful manner. I´m always thinking seriously about other peoples opinions and I´m willing to change mine. So..listen to me. And tell me that I´m wrong and why I am wrong.

Here we go:

I came to the conclusion that the price is ridiculous.

What makes that Reyes guitar worth 9900€ ? Please tell us. I´m curious.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 18:34:16

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

What makes that Reyes guitar worth 9900€ ? Please tell us. I´m curious.

people pay $10.000 upwards for Reyes Sr. at the moment.
So you can sell it for that amount of money.
Supply and demand.
Simply as that.

Why does someone pay 1 million dollars for an old persian carpett?
Why does someona pay 2 million dollars for an old stamp?

I personally (like you) would never pay that much money for a guitar (unless i win the lottery),,,but at the same time i understand that people are willing (and have the money) to buy this guitar.

now check this out

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manuel-Reyes-Flamenco-Guitar-/110457001850?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item19b7c0177a

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 18:55:08

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to gitanillotomillo)

Arash....that means that it could be a crap guitar. But only cos it is this maker..they pay 10.000€.

So why uploading videos and sound samples? Its all useless since nobody cares about the quality but only about the label inside of the guitar. So it´s not for playing basically.. it is more like an investment. Like into houses. From that viewpoint Im ok.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 19:19:50

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to Arash)

quote:

What makes that Reyes guitar worth 9900€ ?

It's not- According to the market it is actually worth more.

EDIT- I think you're right Doit, it is an investment and collectors push the price up. Price doesn't neccessarily reflect the quality of a guitar. But of course Tomatito, V.Amigo, A.Rey, Jesús Guerrero etc.. obvioulsy think that Reyes are very good for playing also.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 19:22:54

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: '78 Manuel Reyes (senior) for sale (in reply to orsonw)

Orson, is Antonio Rey playing Reyes now? I know he has a new guitar, but which one?
Sorry i DO follow his videos, but im not good at getting what the guitar is - unless its a media luna which are easy to target for me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2012 19:29:35