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Has anyone here built a 7 string flamenco?
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turnermoran
Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
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RE: Has anyone here built a 7 string... (in reply to avimuno)
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The 7 string guitar in the video w/ Jason is actually mine. After owning and playing it as my main guitar for about 3 years, I'm starting to feel like the musical possibilites in flamenco are outweighed by the challenges of playing flamenco on a 7 string. Fact is though, I'm not really a flamenco player. I play Brazilian music - a lot of choro in particular, which is more or less where Yamandu is coming from. But I do practice a lot of flamenco - especially technique. Here are some specific issues I've found, and I'd bet that when Jason says in the video that he doesn't think a 7 string would work well in flamenco, these might be some of the reasons: 1) rasgueado where you plant your RH thumb on the basses. If you play an E chord, and leave it on the 6th string normally, do you do place it on the 7th string, or keep it on the 6th and let the 7th string press down from above? If you place it on the 7th, it makes hitting the trebles a new experience, as you're 10 - 11mm further away than you'd normally be. If you put it on the 6th, it can feel weird. 2) rumba strumming; you have be be careful of the extra string, which you must now either incorporate into the chord or mute. And based on how you tune the 7th string, it may or may not to work to incorporate, so you frequently have to mute regardless. 3) picado; similar situation to the rasgueado. If you plan a RH thumb on the 6th string (as I do) do you plant on the 7th now? Which again, places you 10-11mm further away from where you'd normally be. 4) the norm for string spacing is to reduce the distance from string to string, so that the final result isn't super wide. And obviously, there are plusses and minus to tighter spacing. For me, tremolo on the 2nd and 3rd string is made more difficult with tighter spacing. 5) Alzapua: if it's hard with 6 strings it sure ain't easier with 7! These are just a few issues. But if I were a better player, I'd probably be able to make better use of the 7th string in flamenco. I'm thinking that it's best for someone who focuses on the solo/concert repertoire. For example, being able to play a G chord in 7th position, and accessing the high D note on the 1st string/10th fret while being able to include the low G bass note (now available to you on the 7th string) offers cool possibilities. But accompaniment is trickier I think. As far as Stephen's instruments, I think he has achieved one thing in particular that is often missing: singing trebles. Many Brazilian made 7 strings have disappointing trebles. Or the basses sound a little sterile. Steven's guitar sounds very open; big trebles, big basses. Very loud. I like it a lot. And it does sound quite flamenco. He made one for a friend of mine that played my guitar and liked it. He ordered a 7 string with cedar/indian. Mine is spruce/black acacia. They sound quite different. His is more classical, but still open and loud sounding. If the 12 - 19+ month wait works for you, I'd recommend Stephen's 7 strings. Kenny Hill made me a 7 string based on a Rodriguez design. It was a little mushy sounding I thought. Nice basses. But the trebles bottomed out. I've also owned 7 strings by Lineu Bravo, Rogerio Dos Santos, Montalvo and Giannini. I would be curious if other luthiers here would ever build a 7. Anders? Andy?
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 1 2011 5:30:59
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avimuno
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
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RE: Has anyone here built a 7 string... (in reply to avimuno)
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quote:
The 7 string guitar in the video w/ Jason is actually mine. After owning and playing it as my main guitar for about 3 years, I'm starting to feel like the musical possibilites in flamenco are outweighed by the challenges of playing flamenco on a 7 string. Fact is though, I'm not really a flamenco player. I play Brazilian music - a lot of choro in particular, which is more or less where Yamandu is coming from. But I do practice a lot of flamenco - especially technique. Here are some specific issues I've found, and I'd bet that when Jason says in the video that he doesn't think a 7 string would work well in flamenco, these might be some of the reasons: 1) rasgueado where you plant your RH thumb on the basses. If you play an E chord, and leave it on the 6th string normally, do you do place it on the 7th string, or keep it on the 6th and let the 7th string press down from above? If you place it on the 7th, it makes hitting the trebles a new experience, as you're 10 - 11mm further away than you'd normally be. If you put it on the 6th, it can feel weird. 2) rumba strumming; you have be be careful of the extra string, which you must now either incorporate into the chord or mute. And based on how you tune the 7th string, it may or may not to work to incorporate, so you frequently have to mute regardless. 3) picado; similar situation to the rasgueado. If you plan a RH thumb on the 6th string (as I do) do you plant on the 7th now? Which again, places you 10-11mm further away from where you'd normally be. 4) the norm for string spacing is to reduce the distance from string to string, so that the final result isn't super wide. And obviously, there are plusses and minus to tighter spacing. For me, tremolo on the 2nd and 3rd string is made more difficult with tighter spacing. 5) Alzapua: if it's hard with 6 strings it sure ain't easier with 7! These are just a few issues. But if I were a better player, I'd probably be able to make better use of the 7th string in flamenco. I'm thinking that it's best for someone who focuses on the solo/concert repertoire. For example, being able to play a G chord in 7th position, and accessing the high D note on the 1st string/10th fret while being able to include the low G bass note (now available to you on the 7th string) offers cool possibilities. But accompaniment is trickier I think. As far as Stephen's instruments, I think he has achieved one thing in particular that is often missing: singing trebles. Many Brazilian made 7 strings have disappointing trebles. Or the basses sound a little sterile. Steven's guitar sounds very open; big trebles, big basses. Very loud. I like it a lot. And it does sound quite flamenco. He made one for a friend of mine that played my guitar and liked it. He ordered a 7 string with cedar/indian. Mine is spruce/black acacia. They sound quite different. His is more classical, but still open and loud sounding. If the 12 - 19+ month wait works for you, I'd recommend Stephen's 7 strings. Kenny Hill made me a 7 string based on a Rodriguez design. It was a little mushy sounding I thought. Nice basses. But the trebles bottomed out. I've also owned 7 strings by Lineu Bravo, Rogerio Dos Santos, Montalvo and Giannini. I would be curious if other luthiers here would ever build a 7. Anders? Andy? Thanks a lot for taking the time to write your impressions... I am also getting more and more into Brazilian music in general, and Choro in particular. I am very seriously considering getting a 7 string to experiment with... I have gotten in touch with a couple of Brazilian makers, but so far Stephen is the guy who has really impressed me... I think that it's down to the singing trebles as you say.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 1 2011 13:56:51
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turnermoran
Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
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RE: Has anyone here built a 7 string... (in reply to estebanana)
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I did own a Montalvo guitar from Paracho (imported by Berkeley Music Exchange), and have seen others. They are good guitars. They don't have the sensitivity that a hand built guitar does, but they're a good place to start. However, it was around $2k when I bought mine. Now they have better tuners (Gilberts) and list at $2700. Personally, I don't think the sound quality of the guitar warrants $375 tuners. And that's got to be part of the price increase. Anyway, my feeling is that the best entry point is a crappy $300-400 Giannini guitar. Take some sand paper to the neck and reshallac it and it'll be more playable. Spend a couple months playing it, and if you want to commit to the 7 string lifestyle spend the money to get a great guitar. If for no other reason, it's inherently more difficult to play the 7 string, so small problems with a guitar are amplified. Thus it can be difficult to commit to a $3k (or more) guitar, but it pays big dividends, as dealing with a lesser guitar can really sap one's efforts. That's just my opinion.. Stephen - got your message. I was busy shopping for an oversize Christmas stocking. Bach? So would love to. I have yet to create a classical transcription for 7 string guitar.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 1 2011 22:36:54
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