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Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs?   You are logged in as Guest
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britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs? 
Before trying to convert my traditional ebony pegs to geared pegs I'd like to try using some kind of 'dope' or lubricant on the wooden pegs, to make them easier to turn, but also to hold better when in tune.

Any recommendations anyone? What to use, how to apply, etc. etc.

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 13 2011 15:27:41
 
Gimar Yestra

 

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs? (in reply to britguy) 
if I remember correct, Anders sayd he used vaseline combined with pumice powder. I've also heard of people using soap and chalk.

I also believe Anders sayd he would put a little bit of vaseline on the peg, and if it made the peg turn to smoothly or wouldn't hold tune properly he added a bit of pumice powder. I guess this is an trial and error mix.

He described what he did in a fairly recent topic, I think if you go through the luthier section you should be able to find some ways to do it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 13 2011 15:40:19
 
Escribano

Posts: 6424
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs? (in reply to britguy) 
Search is your friend

http://www.foroflamenco.com/searchpro.asp?topicreply=both&message=both&timeframe=%3E&timefilter=0&top=300&criteria=AND&minRank=10&language=single&phrase=peg+dope

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 13 2011 18:41:58
 
Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs? (in reply to britguy) 
Peg compound for sticking pegs and liquid peg drops for slipping pegs.
Considering each only costs $5 and will last you forever I don't feel any need for experimentation.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 13 2011 18:51:44

C. Vega

 

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs? (in reply to britguy) 
If the pegs aren't fitted properly to begin with (which is more often than not the cause of sticking or slipping problems) no amount of proprietary peg goop, vaseline, pumice, chalk or anything else is going to help. I've seen many otherwise well made guitars from some very well-known makers with poorly fitted pegs.
If you don't have the tools and /or the know-how to do it yourself, take your guitar to a good violin shop. They deal with pegs every day. The holes may need to be bushed and new pegs fitted but at least they'll work properly. But don't forget that there is often a bit of a learning curve for the player when it comes to using pegs.
If you decide to try and fix the problem yourself with some sort of peg glop, use it very sparingly. The stuff can be absorbed into the wood of the head and cause you even more problems.
If lutenists can learn to live with pegs (up to 24 of them), so can you.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 13 2011 19:17:50
 
alaskaal

 

Posts: 51
Joined: Jan. 10 2005
From: Chugiak, Alaska

RE: Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs? (in reply to britguy) 
I don't often use lubricant on my peg heads, but when I do, I use Peg Drops (after several Dos Equis). Stay in tune my friends.

Al
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 13 2011 23:57:35
 
estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs? (in reply to britguy) 
I second the violin shop. If you can take your guitar to a violin shop they can look at the pegs a see why they are sticking.


Ebony pegs can get out of round over the years and if there is enough meat left on them they can be reset. The violin maker or guitarmaker with the skills, takes a tapered reamer an ever so carefully with the light touch runs the reamer backwards in the hole to clean it. Not to remove any wood but to smooth an clean the sides of the hole. Then the pegs can be carefully re cut and rounded in a peg shaping fixture.

After that a stick of peg dope is used to coat the peg with dope and the peg can be reinserted in the hole. if the guitar is nice and there is enough left on the peg you can usually do reshave of the peg and get back the performance of a non jittery sticky peg.

It might be worth call or two to a repair shop to see about this. Reshaving the pegs should not be a huge expense.

I would also point out the liquid peg drops don't work if the pegs are far out of round.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2011 1:11:06
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs? (in reply to britguy) 
I concur with going to the violin store. In 2005 I purchased a 66 Ramirez with pegs and took it in to a local violin store to have new pegs put in--the total cost 6 years ago was $125 (new pegs, reaming and shaping). The cost was well worth the investment. Plugging the holes and re-drilling obviously would have cost more--I was barely on the positive side of the cusp for avoiding this procedure. That said, Hill peg dope, used by many string players, works well. Graphite from a pencil also works well.

C.Vega brought up a good point about using pegs. They are friction pegs and friction is what holds them in and turning them requires a reduction of friction and holding them in place requires an increase in friction. Some pulling and pushing will need to occur for this to happen. And, as C.Vega mention, it is the luthier who really makes or break pegs. If you get a chance try an Aaron Green peg guitar--he makes them silky smooth.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2011 12:35:04
 
cosimojack

 

Posts: 34
Joined: Dec. 15 2007
 

RE: Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs? (in reply to britguy) 
I follow this method that Bear Meadow dulcimer's Dwain Wilder recommends:

The best dressing compounds I've found to do this job are Hill's Peg Dope and Hidersine's HiderPaste (both commonly available at stringed instrument shops). First gob the Hill's Peg Dope on the peg lands and work it in by spinning the peg while you apply a polishing pressure with your fingers. You should really heat it up, so it flows a little and works into the wood. Then apply more Hill's, and this time put the peg with the gobs of dope on the lands into the peg's hole in the peghead, coating the holes. Turn the peg vigorously to work the dope into the insides of the hole. Now re-apply more Hill's on the peg and work it into the lands again, raising the heat once more. The object here is to work a generous amount of the peg dope into the wood of the peg and the inside of the hole in the peghead. It isn't necessary to end up with blobs of peg dope everywhere, but don't be sparse in working it into these areas.

Next, wipe off the excess and scribble a few marks of HiderPaste on the peg lands, insert the peg into the peghead and turn vigorously to distribute it. Withdraw, add a final few scribbles to the peg lands, insert and twist. Now your peg should both hold tuning and turn easily at concert pitch.

In the future, when your pegs need conditioning, put on a little Hill's Peg Dope if they are sticking and need to move more smoothly. And if they are getting bad at holding a position and slipping too much, put on a few marks with the HiderPaste.

After stringing up and bringing the instrument to concert pitch, make sure the pegs are still set well and run smoothly. You're done!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2011 12:50:39

C. Vega

 

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs? (in reply to britguy) 
Another point to consider is how the strings are wound on the pegs. As the string approaches proper pitch, or close to it, the final windings should be at the lower part of the peg shaft that protrudes from the front of the head, nearly touching the face veneer. If it the string rides higher up on the shaft it has a tendency to pop the peg loose as well as decreasing the break angle of the string over the nut.
The way the string is wound on the peg shaft also holds true for violins, lutes, dulcimers, etc. I've seen many amateur bowed string players, lutenists, etc. (and more pros than I care to mention) wrestling with their tuning pegs only to notice that the final windings of the strings are in the middle or to the wrong side of the of the pegbox. If the string is wound so that the final windings are close to the pegbox wall (on the knob side of the peg!) as the string approaches its correct pitch, the problems are greatly reduced.
Don't go pushing too hard trying to get a slipping peg to seat. The wedging action of the peg taper can crack the head. I've seen it happen.
Another problem that is frequently encountered, particularly on older guitars, is the taper of the pegs and mating holes in the head. It is often a rather steep 1:20 taper which the violin crowd has all but abandoned in favor of a less steep 1:30 taper which is much less prone to slipping and popping loose. I have a signed 1973 Manuel Contreras blanca that has pegs with the older 1:20 taper (a number of guitar makers still use them) but fortunately they were well fitted and I've had no problems with them. However, should I ever need to replace them due to wear or whatever it will be with 1:30 taper pegs even if it means bushing the holes and re-drilling and reaming.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2011 15:38:01
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Lubricating/'doping' wooden pegs? (in reply to britguy) 
Thanks for all the good advice, links, opinions etc. I've learned a lot from this post, as I allways do when I post on this forum.

I'll get some of the commercial 'peg-dope' etc. as suggested, and persevere.

I had an old nonedescript ("Sevillana"?) flamenco peghead fifity years ago and always had problems tuning it even then, well before electronic tuners became available. Maybe I'm just getting too critical these days because of electronic tuning???

But I really love the traditional look and the special 'feel' of the peghead. So I'll probably stick with this new one for a while longer and hope that I can master the knack of tuning it with reasonable accuracy.

Thanks to all who contributed. Much appreciated.

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 14 2011 21:38:07
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