Picado I & M speed

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Picado I & M speed

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HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

Picado I & M speed

Since we can't have fast picado without a fast i&m speed on a single note,
Are there any exercises for increasing the speed of your picado on a single note, eg just for the speed of the repeating I and m fingers.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2011 16:39:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado I & M speed (in reply to HolyEvil)

staccato 8th notes (2 notes per beat with a 16th rest between each note, a little "blade of silence"). Do on open strings with metronome and speed up, but maintain control and the staccato attack.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2011 17:54:22

Issam

Posts: 50
Joined: Sep. 3 2010

RE: Picado I & M speed (in reply to HolyEvil)

Here is an exercise that i found helpful:

--0-----0-----0-----0-----0--0--0--0--0-----0-------

the 1st 4 notes are 8th notes
the 2nd are 16th notes
and the last two notes are 8th notes

it is a good idea to practice this on all strings and also to practice using:

I M - M I
I A - A I
M A - A M

Chromatic exercises are great too, here are some examples:

4 notes:

(Ex.1)
-----1--2--3--4--4--3--2--1------

(Ex.2)
-----4--3--2--1--1--2--3--4------

(Ex.3)
-----1--2--1--2--3--2--3--4--3------

(Ex.4)
-----2--1--2--3--2--3--4--3--4------

(Ex.5)
-----1--3--2--4--1--3--2--4------

(Ex.6)
-----0--1--2--0--1--1--2--3--1--2--2--3--4--2--3------

(Ex.7)
-----4--3--2--4--3--3--2--1--3--2--2--1--0--2--1------

(Ex.8)
------1--3--2--1--4--3--2------

(Ex.9)
------4--1--2--4--1--2--3------

______________________________

3 notes

(Ex.1)
-----1--3--4--4--3--1------

(Ex.2)
-----4--3--1--1--3--4------

(Ex.3)
-----1--2--4--4--2--1------

(Ex.4)
-----4--2--1--1--2--4------
______________________________

and any other combination that you can think of, just make sure to always alternate.

practice these exercises on different positions, example:

-----1--2--3--4--4--3--2--1--2--3--4--5--5--4--3--2--3--4--5--6--6--5--4--3 etc...

And also practice:

-----1--1--2--2--3--3--4--4--3--3--2--2--1--1------

-----1--1--1--2--2--2--3--3--3--4--4--4--3--3--3--2--2--2---1--1--1------

-----1--1--1--1--2--2--2--2--3--3--3--3--4--4--4--4--3--3--3--3--2--2--2--2--1--1--1--1------
etc...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2011 18:58:46

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Picado I & M speed (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

staccato 8th notes (2 notes per beat with a 16th rest between each note, a little "blade of silence"). Do on open strings with metronome and speed up, but maintain control and the staccato attack.

Ricardo

sorry if i seems 'dimwited' regarding the above post, but just clarifying..
I know 8th notes are 2 notes per beat..
16th notes are 4 notes per beat.

so numerically.
8th notes occur like,
1 1.5 2 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 1 etc etc

16ths like
1 1.25 1.5 1.75 2 2.25 2.5 2.75 3 etc etc

with a '16th note' pause after the first 2 8th notes.
does the next note start on the 2.25? then Tak Tak then pause then the next note starts on the 3.5?

cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2011 0:01:30

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado I & M speed (in reply to HolyEvil)

quote:

with a '16th note' pause after the first 2 8th notes.
does the next note start on the 2.25? then Tak Tak then pause then the next note starts on the 3.5?

Uh....no dimwit.

Just kidding. It is hard as all hell to explain this **** by typing on the internet.

Staccato 8ths imply putting those rests in between each note. So in reality it is a simple way to notate a single 16th, then a 16th rest, then another 16th, then an other 16th rest etc.

So in other words, based on your math, you play 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 etc....the 1.25 1.75 are clearly marked silences.

The most IMPORTANT thing is the way the rests are achieved is by PLANTING the next finger that will play. So i plucks rest stroke, but immediate m stops the string from ringing. Then m plucks but i jumps up and stops the string. etc....always alternate and increase speed gradually. Don't let the notes ring, always stop em with the next finger and the faster you get you will observe a natural tendancy to economize your finger motions. Control=rhythm=speed.....

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2011 2:54:23

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Picado I & M speed (in reply to HolyEvil)

This guy has some advice that i believe is good.

My friend Jai has very good picado. Aside from refining the movement with planting he recommends practicing accenting every third stroke as an exercise.

I m i M i m I m i M i m etc...

Also i notice that he practices with just one finger i i i i i i i i i or m m m m m m then whatever speed he can achieve with single strokes he doubles in short bursts with i m. So many good exercises out there though.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2011 3:07:07

gaash

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul. 29 2011

RE: Picado I & M speed (in reply to HolyEvil)

Honestly... I think it is best to focus on string changing etc. as building i-m speed on one string is much much easier than building useable fast picado (versus just being on one string) and most people (I think?) are limited by string changes etc. than by how fast than can just move i-m.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2011 15:11:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado I & M speed (in reply to gaash)

quote:

Honestly... I think it is best to focus on string changing etc. as building i-m speed on one string is much much easier than building useable fast picado (versus just being on one string) and most people (I think?) are limited by string changes etc. than by how fast than can just move i-m.

Well, not totally. Ultimately you are limited by what your i m can do. And string crossings are not so hard if you keep m on the treble string, and i on the lower string. But doing exercise of odd number notes solves this issue when you cross just open strings. Once i m speed and control is maximized, you will know your limits when you add fretted notes that contain any type of crossing.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2011 15:48:37

gaash

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul. 29 2011

RE: Picado I & M speed (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Honestly... I think it is best to focus on string changing etc. as building i-m speed on one string is much much easier than building useable fast picado (versus just being on one string) and most people (I think?) are limited by string changes etc. than by how fast than can just move i-m.

Well, not totally. Ultimately you are limited by what your i m can do. And string crossings are not so hard if you keep m on the treble string, and i on the lower string. But doing exercise of odd number notes solves this issue when you cross just open strings. Once i m speed and control is maximized, you will know your limits when you add fretted notes that contain any type of crossing.

Ricardo

In my particular case, I would say it took many many many times the amount of practice to be able to play a 6 string scale up and down at 140+ (or even 120 for that matter) versus the amount of time it took to be able to play on one or two strings at >200. Am I ultimately limited at 200 or whatever my top speed is? Yes. But much more useful would be getting the ability to play more patterns closer to that top speed than increasing that top speed. I suspect most people are in that boat but I could be totally wrong.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2011 16:33:55

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado I & M speed (in reply to gaash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaash

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Honestly... I think it is best to focus on string changing etc. as building i-m speed on one string is much much easier than building useable fast picado (versus just being on one string) and most people (I think?) are limited by string changes etc. than by how fast than can just move i-m.

Well, not totally. Ultimately you are limited by what your i m can do. And string crossings are not so hard if you keep m on the treble string, and i on the lower string. But doing exercise of odd number notes solves this issue when you cross just open strings. Once i m speed and control is maximized, you will know your limits when you add fretted notes that contain any type of crossing.

Ricardo

In my particular case, I would say it took many many many times the amount of practice to be able to play a 6 string scale up and down at 140+ (or even 120 for that matter) versus the amount of time it took to be able to play on one or two strings at >200. Am I ultimately limited at 200 or whatever my top speed is? Yes. But much more useful would be getting the ability to play more patterns closer to that top speed than increasing that top speed. I suspect most people are in that boat but I could be totally wrong.

Most students I have encountered get hung up on long phrases because the left hand is messing up the right hand, and it doesn't know what finger needs to play. The fix is pretty simple for a scale up and down. just play open strings, but 3 notes on each and alternate, don't drag any finger. Start on 6 and go to 5 etc up to 1. On 1 do 5 notes instead of 3. Then back down. (perhaps you need only 2 notes on the 3rd string so you can practice that two, but for sake of symmetry I recommend ADDING an extra note to the scale on the 3rd string.) If you can do just the two bass strings at the temp it needs to be, you will see adding the left hand to this will be no problem.

E---------------------------------------0-0-0-0-0---------------------------------------
B-------------------------------0-0-0--------------0-0-0--------------------------------
G------------------------0-0-0-----------------------------0-0-0------------------------
D----------------0-0-0---------------------------------------------0-0-0----------------
A--------0-0-0-------------------------------------------------------------0-0-0--------
E-0-0-0----------------------------------------------------------------------------0-0-0-

Do that until you find your speed limit. Then add the left hand. Left hand should NOT slow you down any.

E------------------------------------------0-1-4-1-0---------------------------------------
B---------------------------------0-1-3----------------3-1-0------------------------------
G-------------------------0-1-2-------------------------------2-1-0-----------------------
D-----------------0-2-3-----------------------------------------------3-2-0---------------
A---------0-2-3---------------------------------------------------------------3-2-0--------
E-0-1-3-------------------------------------------------------------------------------4-1-0

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2011 17:32:24

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Picado I & M speed (in reply to Ricardo)

Personally I have always found picado difficult compared to most other techniques, probably because its not used much in classical playing. I also found that picado on one string is much easier than over string changes. It was always the string crossing for me that is difficult in maintaining i,m. I think most people have this problem. I got a few exercises that help. They are actually from PDLs warm up routine and he identified this problem from early playing days and came up with some mind bending exercises to train the fingers.

Firstly, lets look at playing two open strings simultaneously with i on the second string and m on the first

--0---0---0---0--
--0---0---0---0--
-------------------
-------------------
-------------------
-------------------

Easy right! Now do it again with the fingers swapped around so m is playing second string and i playing first.......much harder to do. This is not a natural way to play the strings but its exactly the position required in string changing during picado.

If we keep open strings and play in triplets (1,2,3/1,2,3 etc.)

--0-----0----0-----0----0-----0-----0-----0----0-----0-----0-----0--
-----0-----------0----------0------------0-----------0-----------0-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
m i m, i m i, m i m, i m i, etc.

The first triplet is m,i,m which is easy on the first and second strings. The next triplet is i,m,i which is our harder combination. Repeat the pattern until its effortless.
In some ways its one of the most simple and yet most difficult exercises to get right. It helps to think m...i....m....i at the begining of each triplet.

Next variation is some left hand fingering

--1-----1----2-----2----3-----3-----4-----4----3-----3-----2-----2--
-----0-----------0----------0------------0-----------0-----------0-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- REPEAT
m i m, i m i, m i m, i m i, etc.

So when that seems to be easier the next step is more chromatic fingering.
The left hand fingering is the same as the fret number so always uses finger 3 for 3rd fret, finger 4 for 4th fret etc.

--1-----1----2-----2----3-----3-----4-----4----3-----3-----2-----2----1-----1--
-----2-----------3----------4------------3-----------2-----------1-----------2-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
m i m, i m i, m i m, i m i, etc.

-----2-------------3------------4-------------3------------2-----------1---
-1------1------2-----2------3-----3------4-----4-----3-----3-----2-----2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

repeat this pattern again on 2cd and 3rd strings then 3rd and 4th, then 4th and 5th etc.
Finally (in case this is all too easy) repeat again using m,a fingers and then i,a fingers

Happy picado

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2011 13:59:57

gaash

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul. 29 2011

RE: Picado I & M speed (in reply to HolyEvil)

One thing I have found has helped me in the guitar and music in general and particularly things which require "strength" or speed is to take a couple days off every once in a while. Anyone who lifts weights etc. knows the importance of rest on improving performance, building muscle, and making improvements in nerve fiber recruitement and signal strength. It's not as extreme an impact with smaller muscles such as those in the fingers and hands but I've definitely found that a few days of rest every once in a while significantly improves my performance.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2011 21:28:38