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RE: WhErE iS ANDERS?
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odinz
Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway
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 RE: WhErE iS ANDERS? (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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haha, yeah i am actually currently looking for a dog and have visited two breeders for those dogs, i am so alone here, and want a trusty companion too!
the grown mastiffs at the breeder were really large, the one dog stood up when i petted it and it towered me completely, like a bear!
And Anders i am glad to hear you say that you continue life, as best you can, this year i have allready lost 3 people who are close to me, one is my aunt wich was allways my main encouragement in music, she had uncurable cancer, and she was withering before me, but at the same time she managed to give me courage and joy like no other person, it would be a disgrace for me to stop completely, as she would definatly want me to continue to do what i do.
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Date Sep. 15 2011 9:36:03
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: WhErE iS ANDERS? (in reply to jshelton5040)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jshelton5040
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruphus
No animal as torturing and destructive like witless humans. ... And that in numbers of billions.
Obviously you have never watched a cat with a mouse.
Below you see a picture taken by me in Costa Rica. ( The cat in the photo, let the rat run. When the rat gave up the cat turned away.)
Also had a cat in childhood who for thankfulness and care used to line up several dead rats on our front door every other time, which my mother wouldn´t be really fond of.
But, though wishing there was no such thing like the cat / mouse game, I always knew of the difference to human sadism ( their background, and the uncomparable dimensions induced ).
For the cat it serves as a hunting training; and the more proficient and routined / aged the cat the less game you´ll see, unless it was about teaching offspring again.
Human sadism on the other hand serves nothing but seeked compensation for inferiour self-esteem; absolutely needlessly induced through lack of shelter and education in youth.
The psychology behind the human pathological inferiority is that observation or conduct of torture and the unspeakable pain with it shall produce abysmal refreshment by the releaving sensation of "It is not happening to me!"
Cats mentality is composite of 50% pre-conditioned behaviour and 50% learned.
Humans on the other hand are stuffed with near zero pre-condition, and depending almost 100% on instruct.
They enter the world as blank sheets, and can either develop to sound and empathic characters ( which they are scheduled for anthropologically ) or into the most wittless and cruel living beings on earth, depending on their upbringing.
Further, prey animals in the shock of being cought by predators release sedatives that will paralize and numb them, none of which will happen with a victim caught by a sadist. Lesser even if a domestic animal fell victim to a human who took advantage of the fact that the animal let him approach trustingly, as it mostly is the case.
Jshelton5040,
There is no comparison of cruelty in the animal world and the endless torture caused by psychopaths.
Neither in ways of duration, repetition and depth of pain, nor in terms of unimaginable quantity of victims; and least of all in terms of causality and ethics.
There is no creature as lowly and harming on earth like sadists and indifferents.
The mouse suffering in the cat game at least means sacrifice for reason of survival.
Whereas a sadist as causal background not even being worth the pain of a fly that he pulled the wings off.
Not even worth a bullet, he actually should go through the same as his last victim.
It´s long time for host qualifying, - control, animal rights and pursue against misuse in no lesser ways than with child abuse.
And time for strict measures to prevent sadists´ stay among exposed, and further production of thelike human offspring trash.
Ruphus
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Date Sep. 16 2011 10:25:13
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: WhErE iS ANDERS? (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
When lived on Ponape the little boys used to cut off the cats tails with machetes. I used to hang the little boys upside down from banana trees.
Maybe hell is not some dark, hot underground place, but just reincarnation as animal among lost humans.
As a kid in Albania, coming to the groups of fellow children when they had caught themselves another animal to torture, it would always be the same. First trying to halt them "calmly", then shouting, then begging and finally shoving them away desperately. But the rest would go on, while I was busy pushing and pulling some of theirs, until the victim was finished. The dogs and cats, puppies and kittens whimpering for a while, appearing so endless.
Only twice could I manage to stop the crowd in the end, but still too late. The animals would die in agony within two days.
Thelike yields a tearing impact on you for the rest of your life.
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There was that neighbour to the right in Cologne, who broke a shelf board on the skull of his pitbull; and the other guy to the left whose beats on the thorax of his dog would be heard in my apartment, until I intervened. Or the neighbours from above ( third floor ) who´d throw their cat into the yard.
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An acquaintance told me of childrens pastime in Leipzig / Germany on a lawn with lots of mice in the seventies. They would catch the mice and dot their eyes with needles, finding funny how it bursts, and then let them run blind.
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Within the nine months living in a towers upper floor of an oriental capitol, I heard at least 60 cats death cry, probaly stabbed by refuse collectors in the late nights. Let alone the regular beating sounds of total dumbs "disciplining" their miserable puppies on balconies of nearby buildings.
... And there´s so much more you couldn´t ever list in a lifetime, happening out there in just one single second. On the country just as in city flats.
As long as there be noone bothering enough to teach the children about empathy during their experimental stage, billions of indifferent and tormenting are being raised.
With the exception of buddhism, it is the great religions that have detached the people from fellow creatures, and made them unfeeling ogres.
Requesting men to make subject of living creatures and environment; handing Abraham a ram as substitute kill, instead of simply telling him to let his son be ...
Such, and so much more, inherently could never ever have been the doings and will of a creator of the world.
Ruphus
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Date Sep. 17 2011 12:14:04
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: WhErE iS ANDERS? (in reply to Escribano)
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quote:
With the exception of buddhism, it is the great religions that have detached the people from fellow creatures, and made them unfeeling ogres.
Not to get too far afield, but I disagree somewhat with this. Many Christian churches have days when the people in the church bring animals to church to be blessed. Episcopalians come to mind first.
And what makes a religion great if it does not acknowledge the connectivity between all things?
A Soto Zen Buddhist monk told me there was a monk in his monastery that kept getting an abcess on the tip of his tail bone. Eventually that monk came to an understanding that he was a horse keeper in past life who had bobbed the tails of a his horses, (cut them off). This is bad for a horse, or a cat, because they use the tail for balance, expression and swatting flies. A horse could get depressed, agitated or overly nervous of it can't keep flies off itself. ( An animal has emotion or feeling even if some of the interpreters of the books the "great religions" relegate the horse or other animal to a realm of soulessness. Even they can't deny the animal feeling pain through it nerve endings even if the beast has no soul.)
Consequently this monk finally understood his past life and felt remorse for the actions of making horses suffer. Eventually he forgave himself and accepted his remorse for the horse, and his abcess went away. Maybe the clarity of seeing himself in a past life was an illusion, but certainly the feelings were real and he had to be with them. There is no way to tell about these things, whether they are true or not, because emotion and illusion are wrapped in irrationality and you can't really see through the wrapping, you just feel what you feel. ( One mistake I've heard people make about Buddhism is that you're discovering these amazing things and having important visions. Maybe that is just spiritual chattering, not important. The way you feel in moment is really only real and has to be lived through. This other stuff is just distraction as fascinating as it may be. Or so I am told.)
So in the end you can know that some churches are blessing animals, and that it's likely that anyone who brutalizes an animal will deal with it at some point, but it's not your problem to worry about how they will suffer for that. And if you recognize that or can digest in some way, that being angry over animal torture will not make you a better advocate for animals you'll can feel better. In other words those who torture animals will suffer for what they do eventually and you can have compassion for them because they will go through hard times for that brutality. Does not mean you should not advocate for animals or save them when possible or even admonish brutalizers and be angry in that instance.
At least I think that is what the monk was trying to tell me. But as usual I could be wrong.
Another monk in the same monastery came up with a karmic theory about animals and destruction of animal habitat. But before he explained this he sternly threw out the disclaimer that in the Buddhist realms no person really knows how karma actually functions; in other words karmic action is not like a legal system of spiritual justice where one gets punished in the sense of an eye for an eye or cast into one of the sin graded circles of Dante's legalistic hells. (Although on the the surface there are similar concepts in Buddhist doctrine they are mainly used to illustrate ideas that are irrational. )
Suffice it to say this monk said "I have no idea how karmic cycles of birth and death actually work, but I had this inkling that the reason there is so much violence in the world in this time is because animal habitat is being destroyed that those displaced animals are being born into the human realm at an accelerated rate." This is both good and bad to a Buddhist, it means there are beings who's past lives are based in the violent action of killing to survive and eat.....which he said for example could be manifested in the violence of protracted civil wars in say Central Africa, where children fight other children because many animals were being born into the human realm so suddenly. But it also means that when a person is born into the human realm they develop ears and the ability to hear the words of the Buddha and can begin the process of the cessation of suffering through the ways Buddhism works, which is you're an animal killing to survive you can't really work on. ( yes Buddhism has it conceits just like the other religions)
Or so I was told by this very interesting Monk.
But I know a dog or a cat is a fine thing to keep near you whatever you think about birth, death and destruction. Monks often keep pets as companions. I knew one who kept a rat in his cassock sleaves and said when it looked up at him it beamed with an incredible amount of love through his little beady pink eyes.
How sweet, no?
Sorry for the esoteric jaunt......I'm looking forward to getting a cat someday from the shelter. And you know getting an older cat instead of a kitten can save lots of wear and tear on your drapes and clothing. 
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Sep. 17 2011 18:12:07
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Steve Wright
Posts: 120
Joined: May 11 2011
From: Scotland Fife UK
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RE: WhErE iS ANDERS? (in reply to estebanana)
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“With the exception of buddhism, it is the great religions that have detached the people from fellow creatures, and made them unfeeling ogres.”
Adam’s first assignment was to connect with the animals. He had to sudy them and name then according to ther habbits and charactistics. (Onomatppoeic)
In the Bible original-language, the terms (Hebrew., ne′phesh [ׁש] and Greek, psy·khe′ [ψυχή]) are used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, an animal, r the life that a person or an animal enjoys. So, for any religion to “detached the people from fellow creatures, and make them unfeeling ogres,” this is against the Almighty God, whether Christian or per-christian. soul is not soemthing that departs from us at death. We are the soul.
You only have a to have a Dog as a pet, to know that it has feelings. We can hurt its feelings or disappoint it with our tone of voice. Horses too are used in therapy for people, because they can sense who we are, what we are. Businesses use horses to make office workers gel together. The horses know long before we do. We can argue the toss with horses and not admit that it’s us that are at fault within the company, but the horses is always right.
To eat an animal in in accordance with God’s allowance to Noah after the flood, but it was still wrong to brutalizes an animal. It was to serve as food and as a form of power to assist man (behind a plow). But there is a lovely command that says, “you must not muzzle a bull while it it threshing.” It should have the freedom to replenish it’s energy when it wishes. The book of Deuteronomy 25:4 If you brutalise and animal, you will also mistreat man.
Dante's hell was imagination, which the church adopted to keep its parishioners in check. It is not a Biblical teaching. All these teachings originate from Babylon/modern day Iraq.
Walking under a ladder - I thought was a modern thing - but it has lasted centuries. apparently, the word “angle” comes from Angel. It is transposed, reminding us of the “fallen angles”. ‘Los Angeles” is also fallen angles. From angle we have “entangle” “triangle” etc. A triangle of equal sides was to show “all knowing knowledge” - which was said to be better than God’s knowledge. Angle, was to go off the straight (as the devil did). Walking under a ladder - well, the ladder makes a triangle (not equal sides though) but it was considered bad luck because you may envoke the anger of the fallen angles.
Worse than the harm to animals is that Kids still go missing today. They are sacrificed in rituals. Anthems came from Babylon. The priest sang them as they sacriced kids - their song drowned out the cries. Sounds like the loud drum roll at the gallows. Some of those parents were complicite in this arrangement, believing what the priests told them. They also worshiped the Great Disc ‘O’ the sun god and in their worship of this god, they danced, just them same as the disco today. The name survived.
I think of the English language as being latin and Germanic, but it’s amazing how much was handed down from when Babylon was a great world empire and we still use the rituals and terms, oblivious to what they mean.
The important thing is that we should respect God’s creation whether it be children, adults or animals. Questions we have a about life and death are all answered in the Bible. We all come to a time in our life when we start asking questions and we get confusing answers. We should never be confused - or should I say, we don’t have to be. The bible is the only book which is thoroughly tested. You won’t find many priests or Monks who are willing to help you find the answers of a course of time, maybe years. My wife and I have spent literally years with some people, helping them to know God, understand his will for them, understand why things happen. These people have become lifelong friends and their quality of life has changed for the better and they all respect animals. If we can’t respect animals, we have a problem within which we need to address. Thank you for respecting animals!
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Rhythm, grace & passion. El ritmo, gracia & la pasión
Be the change you want to see in this world - Gandhi
http://www.youtube.com/user/FusionMusic1000
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Date Sep. 18 2011 15:34:52
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We´ll have to try to make it something not to negative. These moments are difficult. They are like something that freezes life... Now you are sitting in a wheelchair.... You cant talk. You cant walk.... Who wants that? BUT.... As I wrote before. I´m a lot better now than I were 6 - 12 month ago. It sounds strange, I know. But you get used to most things, even sorrow. And you start living your personal life again. And you know that there´s always light at the end of the tunnel. Even though you cant see it. 
