Question about Rodriguez C3F flamenco guitar

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LBrandt

Posts: 46
Joined: Jun. 7 2011

Question about Rodriguez C3F flamenc...

Hello,

I'm still trying to decide on what flamenco guitar to buy. I have two classical guitars, but as I said in my previous post, I'd like to begin working with a flamenco guitar.

Since I don't want to spend a lot of my first flamenco, I'm not ready to go to a luthier at this point.

I had been hoping to compare the Yamaha CG171SF to the Yamaha CG172SF, but no one has a 171SF anymore, so I've decided that I'd like to compare the 172SF to the Rodriguez C3F.

So my questions are as follows:

Would any of you recommend the C3F over the 172SF?

Does the fact that the C3F has sycamore back and sides mean that it's not as true a flamenco as the 172SF, which has cypress back and sides, or is sycamore just as good as cypress for a flamenco guitar?

I've heard that the C3F does not come with a golpeador, but I really don't care about that at this time anyway.

I'd appreciate any recommendations or advice that you can give me.

Thanks,
Louis

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 14 2011 22:52:21

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to LBrandt)

hey mate.. being honest..
if your classical guitar is cheap, just shave the saddle or bridge down and just use it as a flamenco.
try to get about 9mm at the bridge and soundhole, about 3mm action on the 12th fret.
Not much different between that and the C3F and the 171SF. seriously....

if you have no guitar, then I would have said the 171SF.

cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 1:11:02

LBrandt

Posts: 46
Joined: Jun. 7 2011

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to HolyEvil)

Neither of my guitars is cheap, so I don't want to try to make a flamenco guitar out of one of my classical guitars. My understanding is that a flamenco guitar is lighter, has different back and sides and has much less sustain than a classical guitar. When I say that I don't want to spend a lot on my first flamenco, I don't mean to imply that I want to do it so cheaply that I am willing to sacrifice a classical guitar to save money.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 1:41:00

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to LBrandt)

i had the c3f. it was great to learn on. (actually, i'm holding it in my avatar)
the one i had felt and sounded more flamenco than any 171sf i tried. but that was my experience. yours could be different since factory guitars vary so much.

it's weird how it doesn't come with a golpeador but you can add one on easily.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=113865&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=guitar%2Cmakeover

if i remember correctly, both guitars have laminated back and sides so it doesn't really matter anyways. dont worry about the woods too much. just play it and see how it sounds.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 2:26:26

LBrandt

Posts: 46
Joined: Jun. 7 2011

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to at_leo_87)

Thanks for your reply. That helps me a lot. Are you saying that the sycamore back and sides of the C3F creates as good or better flamenco sound than the cyprus back and sides of the 171SF?

The only reason that I asked is that I had always assumed that a true flamenco guitar needed cyprus back and sides. Until I checked the website for the C3F, I had no idea that sycamore was used instead.

Thanks,
Louis

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 3:20:28

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to LBrandt)

Cyprus is just the traditional back and side wood. They make them with all sorts of woods now. there's a lot of other variables involved when it comes to the final sound. Plus they're probably laminates which is just comparing plywood with plywood.

What really matters at this point is that you find a guitar that feels good in your hands, sounds good to your ears, makes you want to play, and your wallet can agree to. It's really that simple! Sounds hard to believe at first, I know, I was there too. :)

Two guitars of the same model can differ drastically. So even if you prefer one guitar over the other because of something you read online, it won't really matter until you try them out in real life and see if you like them.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 4:03:46

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to LBrandt)

Hi there, I hope you didn't read my reply as u being cheap, that was'nt my intention. I apologize if I came across as sayin that.

What I meant was that as at_Leo said, because it has laminated sides, as you would know it won't make much of a difference. It's more for looks.
And between that 2 guitars, they won't have a true flamenco sound so I suggested using a classical with lowered saddle for it if you have a low end classical.
Since you have expensive classicals, that is a moot point for now.

Just get one with good playability, and the best sound that u like.
Don't get sucked in by th advertisement or people saying this guitars sound like guitars worth thousands more. It isn't true, because if it is, why are people not buyin the rodg and Yamahas instead of more expensive ones.

Cheers mate

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 4:23:26

Guitarproject

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to LBrandt)

DONT BUY MANUEL RODRIGUES C3F ! It only looks nice but its bridge is very very high its very hard played guitar ! You should buy Yamaha CG171 or 172 ! Now I have a 171 ! It is good for its price but I am not satisfied with 171 ! I think the best is 172Sf

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 7:03:19

LBrandt

Posts: 46
Joined: Jun. 7 2011

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to Guitarproject)

Thanks again for the replies.

No need to apologize, mate. I appreciate all of the replies. They help me to decide.

As far as the Yamaha CG171SF, that one isn't available anywhere, so if you think that the Yamaha CG172SF is better, I may go that way.

Thanks again,
Louis

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 13:00:52

Graham_B

Posts: 283
Joined: Jul. 10 2007
From: Leigh, Lancashire, UK

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to LBrandt)

My son has had a C3F for the past 3 years - he now uses it for school and holidays.
It is built like a tank!

As at_leo_87 says they can be good to learn on but you really need to play a few to find a good one.

The bridge was far too high when he first bought it, which was a quick fix.
The lack of golpeadors was ridiculous but again sorted easily.
I also replaced the poor quality tuners with the cheapest Rubners.

DO NOT BUY A PINK C3F - they do exist

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 14:07:44

LBrandt

Posts: 46
Joined: Jun. 7 2011

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to Graham_B)

Hello,

You said that the bridge was far too high when it first came. Do you know whether the bridge (saddle) was bone or plastic?

Thanks,
Louis

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 14:50:30

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to LBrandt)

bridge saddle is bone. easy to easy lower.

i had a different experience. mine was low when it came to me and the ones i tried in the store were low.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 14:52:00

Graham_B

Posts: 283
Joined: Jul. 10 2007
From: Leigh, Lancashire, UK

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to LBrandt)

quote:

bridge was far too high

Sorry I meant saddle.

The original was supposed to be Tusq (plastic) but I replaced it with bone after a year or so.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 15:10:54

sig

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to LBrandt)

Lbrant,
The problem is and has always been, do I invest in an expensive instrument right from the beginning or buy a starter instrument to see if I like this music style? I owned a C3F and it was decent but I purchased mine before Yamaha came out with its entry version. I've played several of both models and generally the Yamaha was a bit better than mine (at least it had a Golpeador installed from the factory) but I had no complaints about my C3F.

Everyone has given you good advice and I was happy that I bought the C3F and used it for about 4 years while I was learning and then moved up to a better instrument. One word of caution, just because a guitar is expensive doesn't necessarily mean its going to sound or play better. Its still a matter of getting some experience and figuring out what you like and then search for a guitar that suits your style. If you check in the archives you might be able to see a vid that at_leo did with his C3F and I think you will understand that it's rarely the instrument that makes the music...

I have recently played a Navarro student model Flamenco that I believe could be had for around $750usd and it sounds good and plays well. It might be a better option for you as they are in demand as a starter instrument and you could easily resell it if you want to move up. I feel it is good enough that you could grow with it as well...

Good luck in your Flamenco journey!
Sig--

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 17:15:56

LBrandt

Posts: 46
Joined: Jun. 7 2011

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to sig)

Sig,

Thanks for your reply. Do you know the model number of the Navarro?

Louis

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 18:12:27

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to LBrandt)

Louis! What're you doing in this neck of the woods?! Go back to playing Bach!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: LBrandt
Thanks for your reply. Do you know the model number of the Navarro?

No model number. It's his student model. You can buy them from Ron Hudson at Memorial Music in Texas. Call him and see if he can cut you a deal. You can also find them on fleaBay from other dealers for $650.

VietFlamenco has posted some of his opinions about the latest Yamaha and a student Navarro that he owned. Search for them on the forum. You'll find a lot of guitar assessments here. This is the place that got me started.

_____________________________

Upgraded Yamaha CG171SF
The Guitar Student Journal

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2011 1:09:31

LBrandt

Posts: 46
Joined: Jun. 7 2011

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to GuitarVlog)

Hi GuitarVlog,

Thanks for the info.

Ha Ha! Well, I have to say that I love all guitar music, classical and flamenco. I'd like to be able to play both. I don't want to pay a lot for my first flamenco guitar, but I would like to find a good one to start with.

Louis

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2011 13:23:09

sig

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to LBrandt)

Louis,
GuuitarVlog is correct, no model number and I believe the one I played was the Student model #1. Interestingly enought, the model #1 is the least expensive of his student guitars compared to his Student model #2. It really does sound decent and I thought the playability was very good. You could contact Tom at LaFalseta as he handles this instruments as well. I've heard good things about LaFalseta...
Sig--

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2011 14:31:28

LBrandt

Posts: 46
Joined: Jun. 7 2011

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to sig)

Thanks Sig.

Louis

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2011 18:11:23

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Question about Rodriguez C3F fla... (in reply to sig)

quote:

no model number and I believe the one I played was the Student model #1. Interestingly enought, the model #1 is the least expensive of his student guitars compared to his Student model #2. It really does sound decent and I thought the playability was very good. You could contact Tom at LaFalseta as he handles this instruments as well. I've heard good things about LaFalseta...

They do come in different configs though:

Blanca (Palo Escrito) or Negra (Cypress)
With Pegs or with Machine Tuners (I think this is the difference between #1 and #2 but don't quote me)
Customizable ... Tom Nunez at LaFalseta got one done with rosette that someone in the foro wanted. I think VietFlamenco got his with an upgraded European spruce top.

_____________________________

Upgraded Yamaha CG171SF
The Guitar Student Journal

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2011 20:11:18