RE: 1st blanca build

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: << < 1 [2] 3 4 > >>

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Gimar Yestra)

Here's what all my Monterrey looks like. No real cross-grain "rays"..

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2011 19:38:45

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Interesting the Monteray I used did not look like yours Andy but exactly like pictures found on LMI's site, which is where I sourced my set from. Here you may be able to pic up the horizontal grain lines I mean, or look at LMI's site.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2011 4:04:38

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

is there a noticable sound difference between the types of cypress?

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2011 13:02:03

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I don't think there is a significantly noticeable difference in sound, the top and how you build it is what's going to matter.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2011 15:12:37

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

This is my first Monterrey guitar but the wood seems great, quite close to Mediterranean cypress except for the smell. It has very similar properties in bending, springback, taptone etc. which leads me to believe that it will be acoustically similar to Mediterranean.
Canadian Cypress/Alaska Yellow cedar is different from the others IMO.. it seems to have qualities somewhere between Spruce and a true cypress, and gives a slighty more raspy, percussive edge to the sound. Very flamenco actually but possibly not as refined. Of course this is just that little 10% or so of the sound (debatable), the rest being mostly determined by the top construction.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2011 20:51:31

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

thnx for the reply's

I just got the rosette I ordered, but im kinda busy finishing a customer guitar and have some repairs to do, so the blanca is on hold untill I can put all my time into it..

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 17 2011 21:16:45

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

no picture update yet... sorry.

I have a question though.

how do you guys feel about humidity vs building acoustic guitars?
I was taught to preferably build acoustic guitars under a low humidity level... say around a steady 40%. This has to do with controlling the dome of a guitar top, theoretically a domed top build at a low humidity level will become a higher dome once the humidity goed up to say 70%... right?

atleast thats what I have been tought, I trust my master, he has over 20 years of experience in guitar bulding and received a master degree in classical guitar building.

But im still curious about your opinions and experiences,
so when you guys build a flamenco guitar, do you increase the doming when the guitar is being build in the summertime and a lower dome in the wintertime? any thoughts on that

reason im asking is.. its currently around 70% in my workshop, and building under this humidity level kinda goes agains my instinct. Also humidity levels go from 35% up to 80% from winter to summer time in my country.

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2011 18:08:06

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I don't change my doming depending on the season, but I do keep humidity mostly controlled and also consider where the guitar is going to end up and brace/assemble it in appropriate humidity.
It's pretty hard to control humidity completely but I settle for about 40% in the winter and 50% in the summer.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2011 1:20:26

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Humidity control is not only about controlling doming, it is also about crack control.
During the operations which lock top and back and prevent them freely expanding and contracting, you do not want the moisture content of the wood to be high or you are setting it up for future cracking problems.
These critical operations include bracing and gluing to rims.
Plenty of other things you can do when the rh is high.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2011 1:42:06

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Gimar Yestra)

quote:

reason im asking is.. its currently around 70% in my workshop

Thats too much. If you build at 70% you will have big trouble with cracking and movement, fingerboard problems etc.

You must keep an upper limit of 50% in your workshop. Less than this is ok.

_____________________________

Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2011 7:39:43

Steve Wright

Posts: 120
Joined: May 11 2011
From: Scotland Fife UK

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to krichards)

quote:

You must keep an upper limit of 50% in your workshop

Can you do this with a regular domestic de-humidifier?

_____________________________

Rhythm, grace & passion. El ritmo, gracia & la pasión
Be the change you want to see in this world - Gandhi

http://www.youtube.com/user/FusionMusic1000

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2011 8:04:07

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Thanks for all the input everyone!

so I guess I'll have to wait with glueing the top brzcing, I braced the back a while ago when humidity was at around 50%. I guess ill go on with preparing the sides and the neck and hope winter comes soon.

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2011 13:32:30

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Steve Wright)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Wright

quote:

You must keep an upper limit of 50% in your workshop
Can you do this with a regular domestic de-humidifier?

Yes but in my experience the cheaper ones don't last very long. It needs to be sized to handle your shop dimensions.

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2011 13:50:43

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

and I guess you would also need to seal your shop?, so no cracks under doors, etc for the de-humidifier to work properly?

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2011 13:58:35

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Gimar Yestra)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gimar Yestra

and I guess you would also need to seal your shop?, so no cracks under doors, etc for the de-humidifier to work properly?

Assuming you're not building in a barn it's probably not that critical since you should leave the dehumidifier on all the time; however I wouldn't leave any windows open.

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2011 18:02:03

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

thnx for the reply's

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2011 23:11:31

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Steve Wright)

quote:

Can you do this with a regular domestic de-humidifier?

Yes something costing around 300/400 euro will do the job, but its best to get one with a built in 'humidistat', so you can set it at 50% and forget about it.

_____________________________

Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2011 16:19:52

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

finally had some time to do some work on my flamenco guitar.

inlayed the rosette, braced the back.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2011 14:25:21

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I realy like the plain look of this rosette, and... it was only 7 euro so

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2011 14:26:33

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

So here is the next dilemma for me...

I can't realy deceide wether i want to build with a dome, or a flat top, if i want to make a flat top and create a dome in the bridge.. or a drop off behind the bridge..

I guess all those options could make a great instrument, but I realy can't deceide, so ANY input will be highly appreciated.

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2011 14:30:05

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Both methods work, go with your gut feeling it has more to do with guitar building then science ever has. I suggest you make a decision so you can plan ahead, proper neck angle in your setup is directly affected by the amount of doming used.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2011 14:47:41

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

that's the thing, I have no experience with either methods... so my instinct doesnt tell me much.

Any pro's and con's thats could help me decide?

I havent played many flamenco guitars in my life so I cant realy base my decision on playing experience either.

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2011 17:03:27

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Nice work Gimar.
My solera is dished out to create a dome centered on the bridge (25 foot radius), but I also extend the edge of the dished part up to the soundhole and curve the lower harmonic bar slightly. Then I curve the bottom of the bridge a little bit more, to a 20 foot radius. This pulls up a kind of "cylinder" running along the grain, which I think adds a little extra stiffness in front of the bridge and discourages any dipping of the top there. The other purpose of a dome as you probably know is to prevent cracks, as the dome can fall slightly in low humidity instead of allowing the wood to crack (theoretically).
The only thing I would probably NOT do is brace the top totally flat and then try to pull it up into a radical arch with the bridge, because it seems like that would create kind of a "crease" at the ends of the bridge wings. Everything else is fair game I would say but whatever you do it has to be factored in with the other elements of your top bracing, thicknessing, etc.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2011 23:49:37

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

finished the fretboard and made a rough start with shaping the heel.

Im kinda bummed out by the weather, It started rasining last few days, wich means 70% humidity blaagh, it was around 50% last 2 weeks.... I hope I can get he bracing glued before next winter lol

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2011 21:03:40

medialuna

Posts: 10
Joined: Oct. 10 2007

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

verry nice

un saludo

OTMAR
http://www.otmarmueller.de

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2011 7:16:01

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

glued and shaped the braces

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2011 17:59:22

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Nice clean work. I like it. I've used this bracing quite a bit. How tall/wide are your braces?
I usually glue on the soundhole reinforcements before I glue the upper harmonic bar, and then my patch under the fingerboard. Easier to get everything tight that way but I'm sure you'll be fine.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2011 22:50:10

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

the fan braces are 6mm high and 4 mm wide, but while shaping I made the slightly lower.
the harmonic bars are 6 mm wide and about 16 mm high.

ohyeah soundhole reinforcement... woopsy, isit necesary to glue in a big round one?, Ive seen people use simple straight bars.

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2011 1:01:38

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

You can see what I do here. Just flat strips about 28 mm wide by 2.5-ish mm high. You could just put finger braces there too.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2011 1:15:15

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: 1st blanca build (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

If it's worth anything re: the tuning discussion, Brune noted on his drawing of Sabicas' Barbero that the soundbox gave off a strong 'G' resonance when he tapped the top. That guitar had that strange sectioned bridge patch, which adds some mass in the center of the top but not very much stiffness, which would tend to lower the main top resonance. I've had the best results on guitars with the design shown above when the top tapped between G and G#.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2011 1:30:02