Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Navarro or Tomatito ????   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

Navarro or Tomatito ???? 

Hi ! I want to buy a flamenco guitar under 1000$ ! I am interested in Francisco Navarro Student 1 and Tomatito Alcazaba Blanca ! I would like to know opinions about these guitars and if you have other offers please give me to know
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 30 2011 19:17:40
 
Tomrocker

Posts: 404
Joined: Apr. 18 2010
From: Italy

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

I believe if this possible, you should try both guitars. Factory Guitars can surprise you. I would suggest you a Valerian Bernal for example only cuz it is really comfortable between my hands to play or A Hnos Sanchis too. Both the Navarro and the Tomatito are good. Depends on your connection and feeling towards it. Good luck with your purchase

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 30 2011 20:55:51
 
gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Tomrocker

I agrre with Tomrocker. I will go for a Bernal Nogal as my second guitar. Just check it at Bernal site. It also has some videos.

_____________________________

Spyros
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 30 2011 21:02:50
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

Now I have two guitars Esteve 3ECE classical and Yamaha CG171SF flamenco and these guitars have defects ! That's why I don't trust factorial guitars any more ! Is bernal also factorial??
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2011 4:40:36
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

quote:

Is bernal also factorial??


yes....

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2011 12:10:35
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

i have a francisco navarro concert model that i love.

a lot of people here on this forum have had good experiences with navarro's guitar.

i personally wouldn't buy any artist endorsed guitars.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2011 14:16:47
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

Thanks a lot
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2011 14:35:54
 
orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

quote:

Is bernal also factorial??


But not at all like Yamaha.

The luthier Valeriano Bernal set up a large workshop where about 15 guitars can be made at once. Bernal has since retired, now his son builds with the help of family members. Guitars are built in the traditional way but it's not just one lone man building one guitar.
I've been there, to call it a factory is not really representative. But whatever it's called they make guitars I really like, easy to play, responsive and good flamenco sound.

Bernal factory


Yamaha factory


Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2011 14:49:20
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

But is Bernal better than aTomatito or navarro
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2011 16:09:30
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

Normally guitars like Bernal and Hnos Sanchis lopez are called small factory guitars.

big factory, small factory, medium factory, medium-small factory etc.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2011 16:11:06
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

Hnos Sanchis Lopez is too expensive I want to buy something under 1000 or 1200$ ! my friend had bought a sanchis lopez and I have examined it attentively I think it has a low bridge and excellent sound but it hasn't a good flamenco neck its not enough flat
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2011 16:31:13
 
avimuno

 

Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

I used to own a Hermanos Sanchis Lopez 1F... I have only great things to say about it! It sounded amazing, muy flamenco and very much in the 'Conde' type of sound.
I did however buy it when they were still affordable... seems that the Sanchis brothers have gathered so much hype in the past years that their guitars have become really expensive.
I am currently in Sevilla, and I have tried quite a few of them here... good guitars, as usual, but way overpriced I think!

Why don't you try to check some luthier made guitars... the reputation is that they are expensive. But you can find a really good instrument that was made by one person with really good materials for not that much.

Juan Lopez Aguilarte makes some amazing sounding guitars... you cn find them for around EUR 1,500, which I think is a bargain for an instrument of this quality.

Anders makes his 2A model which is also very affordable.

Check them out!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2011 18:13:46
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

quote:

Anders makes his 2A model which is also very affordable.


Hmm. Long time, me no building no 2A.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 14:41:15
 
kominak

 

Posts: 135
Joined: Apr. 20 2010
 

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

quote:


I have examined it attentively I think it has a low bridge and excellent sound but it hasn't a good flamenco neck its not enough flat


Just a question - what makes you think that flamenco guitars should have flat back of the neck? I always thought that the contour of the neck is a matter of preference - there are flamenco guitars with flat and with round shape and there are classical guitars with flat and with round shape. I even played electric guitars with both flat and round contour...
Some players prefer flat, some prefer round, on my strat I like "V" shaped neck a lot...

_____________________________

Martin Kominak
Slovakia
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 15:17:01
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

It's widely known that flamenco guitar must have flat back of the neck because if it is round and especially if you are playing hard compozitions your left hand will quicklu get tired
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 16:37:44
 
avimuno

 

Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

quote:

Hmm. Long time, me no building no 2A.


You stopped Anders? I thought I remembered reading a post here about you starting to build a 'segunda' model... my bad
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 16:41:16
 
avimuno

 

Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

quote:

It's widely known that flamenco guitar must have flat back of the neck because if it is round and especially if you are playing hard compozitions your left hand will quicklu get tired


Not true at all actually... many builders build with pretty chunky necks, which can be round (Reyes for example) or flat (Conde for example).

Actually Reyes' necks are really chunky, but also really comfortable. Barba probably builds the thinnest/flattest necks I've played, and they are not even that thin/flat.

I don't think that there's a rule when it comes to necks... it's a question of taste and getting used to it... as for your left hand getting tired when playing hard compositions on a round neck... I don't think that the neck has anything to do with it, it's all down to practice and hard work... ask Vicente Amigo, Tomatito and Antonio Rey!

Saludos
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 16:46:56
 
odinz

Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to avimuno

I didnt know that flamenco guitars must have flat necks from anywhere either, i like all kinds of necks, its not the size that matters right?

I also think it is all about preference, on my classical guitars, wich are really really chunky and have high action the left hand still does not get any more tired actually.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 16:58:09
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

If you play on a flamenco guitar a hard flamenco composition with hard barres and then play the same on classical guitar if you are a flamenco guitarist you will fill the difference
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 17:41:29
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

I took my guitar to a luthier to THICKEN the neck. He did it so well that you cant see any difference between the old and new wood and actually his finish looks nicer than the one before.

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 17:59:59
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

why did you take your guitar to THICKEN it's neck ???
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 18:18:55
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

Hey Odinz you said you would send me the pictures of the neck?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 18:20:26
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

coz all guitars i tried so far had too thin or flat necks.

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 18:29:17
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

For every flamenco guitarist I think flat neck must be excellent
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2011 18:39:53
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

Are Navarro guitars 100% hand made ???
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 2 2011 5:21:16
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

One man building one guitar at a time is basically a factory ... what really matters - is the end result a quality
product or not? The ONLY way to determine that is to play the guitar and decide. One man can build a pile
of junk, a factory full of workers can create fine guitars ... Also the opposite can happen.

I would prefer to buy a guitar from one man, who built it for me. But reality is they cost a LOT more
than guitars that come from "factories", and I have several factory guitars that I am very happy with.

Regards,
Jeff
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 2 2011 19:12:09
 
Kalo

 

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011
 

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to n85ae

Guitarproject,

I just Pm'd you as I have a Student Flamenco guitar and I am putting it up for sale!!!

I am asking $600.00!

It is in MINT condition and I have only had it for a year!!!

Let me know if you are interested!

Thanks,

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 2 2011 22:51:31
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to orsonw

The blue shirted MBA manager in the Yamaha video can barely understand what parts a guitar is made of. ( sorry to squish the low hanging fruit. )

Re: Thicker necks. It's a fallacy to think thinner necks are better. Two things come up, one is the distance the opposable thumb and forefinger have to close in on the neck. There is a point at which the hand is weaker or structurally compromised if the distance between thumb and forefinger is too close. Thicker necks can be easier to grip and play because the thumb is not hyper extended in the action of closing the gap between thumb and fingers. Hyper extending the thumb can cause stress on the thumb because it has o over reach to exert enough force to depress the string.

On many older Spanish guitars the necks are thicker than many necks today. It is interesting in to note that people who lived in Spain 50, 60, 70 years ago were probably smaller than we are today. And their hands also smaller in relation to stature. Yet you see many thick necks on older instruments which have been unaltered.

The other thing is that necks that have a bit more mass can't be all that bad, once the mass starts vibrating, it takes longer to make it stop.

Flat necks have a problem too, often the bottom "corner" of the neck can be an impediment to the thumb moving over the neck laterally. In other words from bass to treble side and back. Some flat necks can feel good a work fine, but the 'D' shape is usually better. ( but not always depending on the player) Just an observation. Personally I like a neck with a bit of meat in it so my hand so not get cramped up, but there are builders who take the beefy neck too far.

I like the Goldilocks neck, not too fat or too thin, it's just right.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 3 2011 0:30:07
 
Michael1917

 

Posts: 146
Joined: Jan. 5 2007
 

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

Hi, you should speak with Ron hudson, who is one of the importer/dealers of Navarro guitars, or tom Nunez. I have owned 2 Navarros, both student models, one was a spruce top, one was cedar top. Francisco Navarro has apprentices that build his student model flamenco guitars. I think Francisco is the main luthier for the higher end "concert level" guitars he sells. Overall, I think the Navarros, even the student models, are far better made and more-for-the-money than factory guitars in that price range ($800/$900). You really do get a very good guitar for the money. And with the few people I know who sell Navarros in the US, there is an approval period---you can return the guitar if you don' t like it for whatever reason.

You should consider shopping around, though, posisbly for a used flamenco if you're thinking of spending $1000. You can find some decent second-hand hand-made flamenco guitars, from Spain or here in the USA, in that price range. Good luck.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 3 2011 18:58:19
 
Guitarproject

 

Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan

RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject

My friend has recently bought an Antonio aparicio AA90F Blanca It's a good guitar and very easy played ! It costs 1400$ in Russia ! Now I dont know which guitar is better to buy Navarro Student 1 or Antonio aparicio AA90F
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 4 2011 7:25:52
Page:   [1] 2    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.09375 secs.