Golpeador

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Golpeador

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Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

Golpeador

Just curious what others use for golpeador material (transparent ones). And do you glue it on (with what glue), or use self adhesive ones?

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2011 22:04:19

estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I use the self adhesive type and other materials which I glue on with white glue. For a long time I was using a hard vinyl which was glued on with white glue. It's been difficult for me to get non self adhesive Mylar unless it's ordered in large quantity.

I was getting a product called Planished Hard Vinyl from a supplier on the East Coast. When my supply ran out I tried to order more and they said I needed to order train a car full before they would talk. Planished meant that one side was polished to buff surface, while the other side was high gloss. I just sanded the planished side with 320 paper to prepare it for gluing down.

Hard vinyl will work if you find it and Mylar is nice too. Ideally I like a bit thicker than the .010 Mylar that you find in most supply houses in the adhesive Mylar. Some guitarists can befit for having .015 thick material if it's available. I've been using the self adhesive Mylar Adhesive more and more, but would welcome a connection to other thicknesses and non self adhesive options.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2011 22:22:29

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Ok thanks. I'll tell you why I asked. I've been using these self adhesive golpeadores from Mr. Ron Fernandez

http://www.fernandezmusic.com/Flamencotapplates.html

They are great because they have a CLEAR protective sheet on BOTH sides not just the sticky side so you can easily write on them to trace the circle or what have you, and you can burnish the hell out of them without fear of scratching. Also the adhesive is great and much more even than 3M plates for example, and leaves no bubbles.

Here's the funny part: since Ron found out that I French Polish guitars he has basically refused to sell me any more, claiming that on a FP'd guitar a golpeador should only be glued on. But after experimenting with gluing various plastics to test boards I'm not very satisfied with the adhesion or the overall time/ tediousness of the project and I'm really missing those beautiful Ron F. golpeadores!!

So if anyone can tell me where to get a really good quality self adhesive golpeador I'd greatly appreciate it.
Or maybe I can twist his arm by telling him that I'm just going to get one somewhere else anyway

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2011 22:41:31

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Tell Ron you're doing a batch of student guitars with oil finishes or something else.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2011 22:56:17

estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Call LMI- They sell the same thing. In sheets that are 9"x 8"- Plastic film on both sides so you can write on the outside and shape them without scratching. I'm the one who asked them to provide them in 9" wide pieces so you can cover more of the top.

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Pickguard+Material&NameProdHeader=Pickguard+Sheets

Look down the page for this:
PGW pickguard sheet, white, .010” thick, 8 x 9 3/8”, self-adhesive In Stock $4.10 $3.65

For the price of one sheet of Mylar from your dealer you can buy three from LMI at $5.00 each. And they are larger. I've been using them for years. They work great.

You're welcome

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2011 23:08:55

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

word, I was wondering about the LMI ones. I think Fernandez is selling the same **** and tripling the price. They should talk up this item more because they really are the best out there. Those 3M ones are really horrendous

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2011 23:37:41

estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

3M makes everything. They made Ikea, Johnny Depp, Richard Nixon, Sophia Loren and they made your mom.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2011 0:26:54

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Madinter in spain sells the exact ones you were talking about. with the protective sheet on both sides.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2011 8:28:47

kominak

Posts: 135
Joined: Apr. 20 2010

RE: Golpeador (in reply to estebanana)

Anybody tried these?
http://www.madinter.com/b2c/index.php?page=pp_producto.php&md=0&ref=AG1
I plan to put them on my first build, which is going to be finished in a
month or so, but if they aren't any good I'll order the set from LMII.

Edit: Oops, I see you already answered my question, Stephen.

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Martin Kominak
Slovakia

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2011 8:29:26

dformell

Posts: 126
Joined: Nov. 7 2010

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Hi Everybody,

Another cheap alternative is dunlop, they make a preformed two piece golpeador in clear, white or black for $6.05. One side is adhesive and the product comes with instructions. The downside is the dunlop golpeador is thinner than the LMI & 3M offerings and is not very well cut. But if you are looking for a fast installation the Dunlop can't be beat. Here's the link:

http://shop.jimdunlop.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=127

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2011 19:11:14

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Andy, and whoever is reading-
I have always used the self-stick ones from LMI and never had problems with them...until I changed the shellac I was using for french polishing. I have used them over lacquer and marine varnish without problem. When I have put them over some kinds of shellac that are harder than others (Kusmi Buttonlac and Platina) I have gotten areas that look hazy at a certain angle. Have you ever experienced this? Anders mentioned in some post that he waits a certain amount of time before putting on the golpeador and I wonder if this is why. (Anders, are you reading?)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2013 21:35:23

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

http://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/plastic_sheets_rolls

In their El Cerrito, CA store and they sell non adhesive Mylar by the foot. Their website is kind of worthless. In their store they had the Mylar on these giant rolls (I think like a yard wide), and if I remember right I saw 3 thicknesses, including a very thick one. They also have colors and mirrored stuff, for the more adventurous luthier

but I don't know how thick. Forgot the price too, but I remember it not being too bad. An employee told me their San Leandro, CA store has the largest inventory, never been there though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2013 22:58:03

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I use the ones from Madinter.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2013 7:04:31

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Golpeador (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

Andy, and whoever is reading-
I have always used the self-stick ones from LMI and never had problems with them...until I changed the shellac I was using for french polishing. I have used them over lacquer and marine varnish without problem. When I have put them over some kinds of shellac that are harder than others (Kusmi Buttonlac and Platina) I have gotten areas that look hazy at a certain angle. Have you ever experienced this? Anders mentioned in some post that he waits a certain amount of time before putting on the golpeador and I wonder if this is why. (Anders, are you reading?)

Yep I've been using the LMI ones since I posted this 2 years ago.
I tried various experiments with different plastics and glues but nothing worked satisfactorily or fast enough for me.

I haven't had a problem with the haziness you're describing, just the odd air bubble once in a while which always go away.

I always wait at least a week after the guitar is finished to put the golpeador on.

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2013 23:34:21

Flamingrae

Posts: 220
Joined: May 19 2009

RE: Golpeador (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

When I have put them over some kinds of shellac that are harder than others (Kusmi Buttonlac and Platina) I have gotten areas that look hazy at a certain angle.

Ha! - just experienced this one. My latest I've done in an orange finish and the colour is fine. I have been playing for a couple of weeks and I've noticed that either side of the strings is a (only slight, but noticeable to me) haze that corresponds to playing style. The shellac is a mix of pale orange and dragons blood which I've not done before, but the colour is good and it all dried fine. I'm using the self stick golpes - not sure where they come from, but they work and I get them from El mundo in central London who seem to have a good supply.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 5 2013 11:15:59

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Thanks for getting back to me Andy and Anders.
It's funny how things go fine for so long and then suddenly not so fine. Reminds me of science.

Sorry you're experiencing it too, Flamingrae. I think it may be due to the refractive index of the particular shellac--as long as it is very close to that of the adhesive on the golpeador, no problem; otherwise....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 19:52:34

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Flamingrae)

Thanks for sharing your experience, Flamingrae.

Just to leave no stone unturned, What kind of oil were you using? I have been using extra virgin olive oil.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 20:56:17

Flamingrae

Posts: 220
Joined: May 19 2009

RE: Golpeador (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

What kind of oil were you using? I have been using extra virgin olive oil.

I dont use olive oil for FP - I use it for the fingerboard if no lemon around. A white clear oil - I believe a parrafin oil?? Bought around the time I needed FP and was shown that.
Interesting your thoughts on RI of shellac and as it was a different mix this time round, that may follow. The marks do go where the fingers would when playing. I'll get back with a pic asap - lots to do this week.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2013 21:36:31

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Flamingrae)

I think I have finally figured out this hazing problem. I had the same problem again using the same shellac that worked fine before and I was about to give up on the sticky-backed golpeadors from LMII for French polished guitars and go to gluing on Mylar with white glue. I even ordered some Mylar. Then the next morning I woke up realizing one difference between what I did before that worked and what I have done since: I used a fresh shellac solution before and now it is months old and I have continued to use it.

I have always heard that old shellac solutions go bad and will not dry, but I have never kept one long enough for this to be the case, and I have kept them for years. But I guess degradation occurrs even if it will still dry and produce a hard finish. The golpeador appears to go on nicely, then a little later it lifts off some of the degradation products (smaller molecules), and thus the haze.

I bet Andy Culpepper uses fresh shellac and that's why he hasn't had any problems. I even let my old shellac dry for over a week but it didn't make a difference. It's the freshness of the solution that counts. I am one of those people who has trouble throwing things away. You should see my refrigerator....

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2013 17:46:11

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Golpeador (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

I bet Andy Culpepper uses fresh shellac and that's why he hasn't had any problems.

That is interesting, I pretty much always use the same kind of shellac and never mix more than enough for about a guitar and a half, so maximum sitting around time would be maybe 2 months.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2013 19:15:05

Flamingrae

Posts: 220
Joined: May 19 2009

RE: Golpeador (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Ah ha - this is a possibility and as near the truth for now............... I confess that I killed my dragon some time hence and whilst the skin and entrails were hanging up for preservation, the blood was left to one side for many moons I fear. As I have had no problems with beetle armour in my past lives, one could assume that the magic from the blood has evaporated and attracted the haze sprites.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2013 10:21:35

Flamingrae

Posts: 220
Joined: May 19 2009

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Flamingrae)

This is what I mean..............

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2013 16:10:45

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Flamingrae)

On the matter of golpeadors, how do you remove old golpeador?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2013 18:17:04

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Golpeador (in reply to tele)

I remove them with terpentine substitute.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2013 2:25:52

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Golpeador (in reply to kominak)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kominak

Anybody tried these?
http://www.madinter.com/b2c/index.php?page=pp_producto.php&md=0&ref=AG1
I plan to put them on my first build, which is going to be finished in a
month or so, but if they aren't any good I'll order the set from LMII.

I never would use such small golpeador. On one guitar I had two small ones. The space unterneath the strings is not covered. So I damaged the top in this part with my finger nails. I strictly prefer a big one-piece golpeador.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2013 2:32:33

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Golpeador (in reply to bernd)

Can you elaborate how it's done? thanks

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2013 16:27:24

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Golpeador (in reply to bernd)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bernd

quote:

ORIGINAL: kominak

Anybody tried these?
http://www.madinter.com/b2c/index.php?page=pp_producto.php&md=0&ref=AG1
I plan to put them on my first build, which is going to be finished in a
month or so, but if they aren't any good I'll order the set from LMII.

I never would use such small golpeador. On one guitar I had two small ones. The space unterneath the strings is not covered. So I damaged the top in this part with my finger nails. I strictly prefer a big one-piece golpeador.

My 73 sobrinos I bought used came with two golpeadores that actually meet perfectly in the middle. It's a cool idea so in the future I only need change the bottom half yet the center under the strings is still protected.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2013 17:16:01

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2013 18:32:35

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Golpeador (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

Can you elaborate how it's done? thanks

low action at bridge and a strong picado stroke.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2013 18:35:24

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Golpeador (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
My 73 sobrinos I bought used came with two golpeadores that actually meet perfectly in the middle. It's a cool idea so in the future I only need change the bottom half yet the center under the strings is still protected.

Yes, thats good. And I imagine it´s more comfortable as you need to remove the half part beyond the treble strings after a few years for this part is used up much quicker than above the E bass string.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2013 18:39:54