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RE: Difference between classical and flamenco guitars   You are logged in as Guest
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Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3122
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Most of the time Bach lute suites and transcribed works sound better on flamenco guitars because the dry fast decay attack works with thick counterpoint intended on harpsichord. The violin partitas to an extent also. The cello suites still aren’t successful really on guitar.

Flamenco guitars are much more versatile than they get credit for.


Yesterday evening I had the classical music station going two rooms away while I worked in the kitchen. The passages between the rooms are several feet wide. You can hear, but it's not like sitting in the room with the speakers. They put on some renaissance lute music. I couldn't reliably identify the composer, but I thought, "That would sound good on one of the blancas."

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 12 2021 5:21:45
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to Richard Jernigan

Maybe it was Francesco da Milano...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 12 2021 13:06:37
 
JasonM

Posts: 1684
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to Richard Jernigan

Maybe it was John Dowland
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 12 2021 17:17:38
 
JasonM

Posts: 1684
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to JasonM

Pablo Requena said in that vid that he likes to sand down the edges of the lower bout on flamencos. But I thought that was not the best course of action to get a quick decay because it would cause the soundboard to pump/travel more like a fat kid in the middle of a trampoline
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 12 2021 17:31:09
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3122
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Maybe it was Francesco da Milano...


quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

Maybe it was John Dowland


I like to think I would have recognized either one, since I have played a few pieces by each, but maybe....

Also played a few by Luys de Narvaez, Alonso de Mudarra and other vihuelistas--some of the earliest printed instrumental music. Of course I have only played modern editions during the last 10 years. Long ago I played a few pieces from lute or vihuela tablature. If I tried to do it today, it would be like starting over from scratch to learn it.

These days I'm working on Dowland's "Lachrimae Pavane." IMHO it's one of the greatest pieces ever written. It will be months before I can play it fluently, but it's worth the effort.

The renaissance lute only had ten frets from the nut to the body, but even capoed at 2 on a 650mm scale there are some prodigious stretches: 4 on the 7th fret 1st string, 1 on the 2nd fret 6th string; hold the bass and play a scale figure on the 1st string.

The editor of the version I have advises that if there are some notes that can't be held, just play them on the beat, then give up. "The duration of the note just indicates the voice leading." I'd be willing to bet Dowland played them the way he wrote them. After all, he was the most famous lutenist in Europe, for both playing and composition.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 4:30:12
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3122
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

Pablo Requena said in that vid that he likes to sand down the edges of the lower bout on flamencos. But I thought that was not the best course of action to get a quick decay because it would cause the soundboard to pump/travel more like a fat kid in the middle of a trampoline


I don't know anything about guitar making, but I've read measurements on quite a few guitars that were 0.5mm or so thinner at the edges of the lower bout.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 4:35:47
 
Pali

 

Posts: 119
Joined: Apr. 4 2021
 

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to Richard Jernigan

I have a huge problem and not what to do, they asked me for a couple of guitars for a flamenco night.
I have tried these four and I don't know which one to send because I can't tell if they are classical or flamenco, I hope you can help me, I don't want to be wrong ...

I await your opinions and thus make a decision ... I may not send none because its sound is not good ... you decide ...



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 9:36:11
 
RobF

Posts: 1114
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to Pali

quote:

I await your opinions and thus make a decision ...

It’s hard to tell because there’s a big black square stuck over the top half of the video. This could be affecting the sound. But, even with this technical difficulty, one can still try to help, so my suggestion is to send all four and let the players decide for themselves.

Or send the ones you’ve already decided to send, you know, before asking about it.

Either way, it doesn’t really matter, as long as everybody gets drunk and yells a lot. Or goes crazy with all that infernal clapping and stomping, because then nobody can hear the guitars, anyways. It’s good to make all that noise because it drives away the demons and the world needs this.

Don’t forget to stick plastic all over them. That’s the most important. You never know when Ricardo is going to show up and make a mess. The plastic can be peeled off after, which is better than hosing down the guitar.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 12:49:07
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to Pali

They suck, but number three sucks slightly less. Send the sewing machine it will be more useful. Y

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 15:26:36
 
Escribano

Posts: 6252
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to estebanana

Number 2 sounds slightly more flamenco to me, as does number 3 ... just.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 15:36:13
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to Richard Jernigan

Richard,

I’ve been on and off reading Lehman Perkins book Music in the Age of the Renaissance, it’s about 500 pages and really treats mainly vocal music. It looks liked Renaissance carried on about 300 years if you count bleeding out of the late troubadour age and into the early baroque. There was a hell of a lot going on and the growth of music was gangbusters. I’ve been listening to a lot of shows about vocal polyphony, how the music develops via church and non church avenues, and the development of proto opera.

It’s so complicated in a way. Those lutenists were a small cut of a huge pie. No wonder it’s hard to place them. One thing I’ve decided is flamenco guitars probably not good for transcription of madrigals, the vocal lines sustain too long. Where is this going? I don’t know.... but Scarlatti and Bach on flamenco guitar. Narvaez for my money was the best late Renaissance composer of string music, but also Fuenllana and those English lutenists were ok too.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 15:39:37
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to Escribano

Escribano,

Sure you say that, but we have yet to hear the sewing machine, which could have a more metallic sound than all of them.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 15:43:44
 
Escribano

Posts: 6252
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Sure you say that, but we have yet to hear the sewing machine, which could have a more metallic sound than all of them


Maybe so. Anyway, what do I know about how a guitar sounds?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 17:44:35
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1760
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to Pali

They all sound perfectably reasonable.Just sent those where you can´t shove your hand between the strings and the tapa. A test of the maestro Niño Jero
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 18:25:50
 
Pali

 

Posts: 119
Joined: Apr. 4 2021
 

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to RobF

quote:

Either way, it doesn’t really matter, as long as everybody gets drunk and yells a lot. Or goes crazy with all that infernal clapping and stomping, because then nobody can hear the guitars, anyways. It’s good to make all that noise because it drives away the demons and the world needs this.

Don’t forget to stick plastic all over them. That’s the most important. You never know when Ricardo is going to show up and make a mess. The plastic can be peeled off after, which is better than hosing down the guitar.


Ahahahahaha terrific !!!! I'm sure you are from here in Cordoba, you have our Andalusian humor,.... hahahahaha

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 20:42:35
 
Pali

 

Posts: 119
Joined: Apr. 4 2021
 

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

They suck, but number three sucks slightly less. Send the sewing machine it will be more useful. Y


hahahaha your hearing is sensational ....
I no longer have the machine but I recorded something for its new owner and it really sounds fantastic, 100 years .......



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 20:46:49
 
Pali

 

Posts: 119
Joined: Apr. 4 2021
 

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to Richard Jernigan

Well guys, this is not to argue, it is simply so that you can see how difficult it is to agree on something like the choice of a guitar or its sound.

Here is a saying that says: To taste the colors.

I sent the 1st and 3rd curiously they left the cypress one .....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 20:51:05
 
ernandez R

Posts: 484
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to Pali

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pali

quote:

They suck, but number three sucks slightly less. Send the sewing machine it will be more useful. Y


hahahaha your hearing is sensational ....
I no longer have the machine but I recorded something for its new owner and it really sounds fantastic, 100 years .......





Pali,

It's no good, your sewing machine has no compas. ;)

It so hard to hear a guitar recorded with phones and then listened to with phones or other low quality audio devices.

I have a relatively good ear and it was hard to tell much as so much dynamic range of a guitar doesn't present in a utube recording playback.

The big Clasical and Flamenco dealers put up all these great videos but there is so much reverb and other equalizer effects in the sound one can not make an honest judgment. And yes, like so much marketing it is a big lie.

I always tend to limit choices or people get lost in the wrong details, next thing you know someone has run their finger through a walking foot made for five millimeter leather or worse, bleeding out like Sr Ricardo. I've bled all over my stratocaster but never sewn my fingers, thank the maker!

Just bring them the two you think best and enjoy the party. Olé


HR

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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 21:30:50
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12957
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Difference between classical and... (in reply to Pali

quote:

I await your opinions and thus make a decision


They all go “THWONG!!!!” With the open A string, which means high bridges. When you build your next guitar, get the angle of the neck FORWARD so that when you put a cigarette under the strings at the bridge, it gets stuck and can’t roll freely. Then you have a proper flamenco guitar. You will thank me.

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www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2021 23:53:36
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